MacOS El Capitan as endpoint/bridge

Just_Me · January 7, 2021, 3:48pm

Hi,

I’ve been using a Macbook pro (Sierra) as the endpoint/bridge to connect my DAC via ethernet to my Roon Core (ROCK). I am trying to substitute a really obsolete Macbook Pro running El Cap (OS 10.11) where it is end-of-life’d.

I have a glitch. I can set core audio to output to the USB-attached DAC. I cannot see anyway to address it directly through Roon. The first hint is that there is no list of devices in my menubar speaker (sound) icon.

The main downside is that I cannot pass up sampling through and communicate directly from Roon to the DAC.

Am I missing something?

Or is this a limitation of El Cap?

Any help appreciated. TIA,

G

terzinator · January 7, 2021, 4:24pm

According to the Roon KB, Roon bridge should be able to run on anything 10.8 (Mountain Lion) or later

Maybe your MBP is too old to work with that specific DAC via USB?

Just_Me · January 7, 2021, 4:33pm

Hi - thanks for the quick reply.

For clarity - i am not running Roon Bridge - just regular old Roon client - the same as the other one which worked fine.

Note that the DAC is working fine via Core Audio. The problem is that i cannot see it directly via Roon to set up outside of Core Audio.

Can you explain the functionality that is in Roon Bridge that is not in Roon (core/client)?

G

terzinator · January 7, 2021, 4:38pm

ah, sorry, saw bridge in title.

Bridge basically does the same thing, but is headless. (So it’s a “lite” endpoint that you’d control with another roon interface.) I use a mac mini as a bridge, which is a natural because it has no built-in monitor, etc…

Just_Me · January 7, 2021, 4:51pm

that was my assumption. So no impact on my issue… client does the same (as it always did…).

So back to “why can’t i address it from ROCK directly?”

Again it only shows up as “via core audio” rather than 1) via core audio and 2) directly (“USB high res device”)

terzinator · January 7, 2021, 5:00pm

i’d still try to confirm your MBP is supported by that USB DAC. (Or maybe I’m missing something, which is frequent!)

Just_Me · January 7, 2021, 6:19pm

What do you mean “supported”? Its a USB device. Macs support USB audio profile v2. Pretty much full stop. I guess part of the quetsion hre is “who knows the difference in USB audio profile support across MacOS versions” bbut i’m trying not to lead people more expert than me…

terzinator · January 7, 2021, 6:31pm

oh, was just wondering if the mac is too old for the DAC. (not sure what dac it is)

Just looking for clues is all!

carry on!

Just_Me · January 7, 2021, 6:45pm

I still don’t understand what needs to be “supported”. Unlike the bad old days of drivers, there is a standard for high res audio - USB audio profile v2. Devices that met that are regonized as “USB High Res Audio Devices”. And it is – within the sound preference pane… but not in the menu bar pull down.

In theory, the mac has no idea what it is. It just sends the PCM data. I use one of several dacs there - it ought not matter and never did in the past…

In Roon i see, attached to this mac, “USB High Res Audio via Core Audio”. I don not see “USB High Re Audio” as a separate device.

Hope this helps. Maybe you can tell me the ins and outs of the standard USB profile that i’m missing…

Just_Me · January 10, 2021, 8:32pm

Anyone? Still truing to figure out why, in OSX 10.11, i only see the DAC connected via core audio, and therefore cannot enable up sampling , vs on OSX 10.12+ i can see it as a Roon endpoint “through” the “mac as bridge”

TIA,

G

Just_Me · January 13, 2021, 2:51pm

Just moved ot support since there were few replies in the community. TIA, G

noris · January 18, 2021, 5:50pm

Hi @Just_Me,

Can you please share a screenshot of what your Roon Settings -> Audio tab looks like when you have the DAC connected?

Do you have any firewalls on the Mac the DAC is attached to? I would try to disable any firewalls (like Bullguard / Little Snitch / McAFee) and also make sure Roon is added as an exception to the Mac firewall by using these instructions.

Just_Me · January 18, 2021, 6:44pm

Yes, i’ll get a screenshot. No firewall. In fact, nothing changed except i substituted one macbook pro for an older one (and of course defined a new endpoint since its address had changed).

I’ll get the shot and post later, Thank you for taking this on. I infer it ought to work the same on El Cap as on Sierra.

Rugby · January 18, 2021, 7:32pm

One wasn’t cloned/migrated from the other perchance?

Just_Me · January 18, 2021, 8:12pm

One WHAT wasn;t cloned? Entire disk image? Roon instance? …unclear.

Anyway, nothing was cloned from anything.

Anyway, i want to focus attention on one of the first things i wrote. In the menubar, under audio, there is no item for “USB High Res Audio” which ought to be there.

Rugby · January 18, 2021, 8:15pm

Sorry, if my question was unclear, I was asking if one of the machines was Migrated from the other. And you said no.

Just_Me · January 18, 2021, 8:22pm

correct, no.

Just_Me · January 18, 2021, 8:29pm

Here are 4 screen grabs:

setup/audio main screen
USB DAC setup 1 of 2
USB DAC setup 2 of 2
Sound control panel

(Oy! Mac grabs in tiff; your site won;t accept tiff, off to the converter i go).

Note that the upsampling is set to max.

On DAC the indicator for sampling rate remains at 44k

USB connection is via core audio with MacOS manipulation in the signal chain.

using the other machine:

USB High res Audio showed up in sound menubar
USB High res audio showed up as a direct option to be enabled
clearly received up sampled data and indicated such

Adding one more nugget. As you see, it allows “device volume”. This is a siumpel R2R DAC and does not HAVE device volume, so as far as Roon appears to know, the “device” is the Mac Core Audio. This is, i think, the fundamental problem.
TIA,

G

noris · January 21, 2021, 2:05am

Hi @Just_Me,

Thanks for the screenshots!

It looks like you have an MBP2009_USB zone in this list, is this not your DAC?

Have you also configured Roon to perform the upsampling in the DSP Engine for you? I see you have it set to 768kHz in the Device Setup, but you might not have DSP turned on:

Just_Me · January 21, 2021, 4:00pm

My DAC is the Denefrips via USB Both are CA.
I have DSP on and active for other DACs. It was active for THIS DAC before the macbook pro swap. I changed nothing. It doesn’t change itself does it? In any event its still upsampling to my other DAC

Not sure if this is everything you need. But before, the Denefrips shows up as “USB High Res Audio”. I was receiving an upsampled stream (varied according to indicator lights), and device volume was grayed out.

Now it only shows up via Core Audio, and there is device volume (which does not exist) so i can only conclude Roon sees the Mac, not the DAC.

Grant