Max volume on start of playback via Airplay - Naim Mu-so & Mu-so Qb [Solved]

The problem started with the Roon update, it worked fine before, look back from the start of the thread.

As I understand it, that is not the case.
AirPlay2 is supported by Roon as standard and hence compatible with the Roon software environment. MuSo & MuSoQB both functioned perfectly until a firmware update was provided by Naim. It is worth noting that other AirPlay2 devices do not suffer from this problem.
After much discussion and investigation between Naim & their software developers, a “firmware bug fix” is unlikely to happen.
Naim’s Software Director told me that he is looking at providing a “dirty fix” such as sending volume control instructions when receiving initialise instructions from Roon which will overcome the maximum volume issue.
This is, it appears, a low priority job and no timescales for the implementation of a fix have been offered. Having accepted the need to provide a solution suggests that Naim will eventually provide the necessary fix.
Naim does appear to be providing different information from different areas of their business but I am optimistic of a resolution.
This doesn’t do Naim’s reputation any good but certainly, as it stands, does not reflect negatively on the Roon software. What does not reflect well for Roon is their communication on this, and many other issues raised in the community.

Regards.

Both of my MuSo devices worked perfectly until Naim updated their firmware, I am sure others had the same experience.

I think you have way to much optimism in this but I’ve pretty much been told it wont ever get fixed. I hope that you are right and I am wrong though!

Just to add, none of my other Airplay devices through Roon have this issue at all. The Audio Pro’s I have in the office all work fine. Its ONLY the Muso’s. The most expensive. The ‘premium’ ones.

Yes, that is correct.

On re-reading properly the response @Mikey got from Naim, I am more and more confused … and increasingly worried. I try to stay optimistic like @PixelPopper, but struggle :unamused:.

We are creeping close to a year since first reports on potentially equipment damaging incompatibility between Roon and the Mu-so, and it does feel like being strung along. Not even sure by whom!

I for one would now like to cut through the proverbial cr… and get information which allows me to decide if it is time to give up hope on a fix and move on.

I have no real understanding of the AirPlay / AirPlay 2 protocols, including requirements for backward compatibility; or whether Roon and Naim are still actively talking and seeking a solution. Naim’s answer doesn’t suggest prioritisation at their end…

So, the following info seems relevant to make a reasonable assumption on what to expect:

  • is Roon’s AirPlay 1 implementation actually fully compliant with the protocol? (I always understood it is)
  • is there any real prospect of Roon implementing AirPlay 2?
  • is Naim’s AirPlay 2 implementation fully compliant with the protocol?
  • does AirPlay 2 compliance require backward compatibility with Airplay 1?
  • are Roon and Naim still actively communicating and trying to solve this between them, for the benefit of their customers? Do they have confidence in a solution?

I may have missed answers in threads on this forum - if so my apologies. Someone from @support who wants to chip in on any of the above, perhaps?

(I am not in the blame game, just looking for information so I can decide whether to continue to try and deploy the Mu-so in combination with Roon)

Over to the stream of conscience and my specific ‘problems’ with the response from Naim. For those with too much time on their hands and not easily bored. (Maybe put some music on, but be ready to turn the volume down)

In my understanding the first sentence is true, but has nothing to do with the problem. I thought “Roon Ready” is about RAAT, and has nothing to do with AirPlay or AirPlay2 compatibility of the Mu-so? The (first generation) Mu-so was and still is listed by Roon under 'Roon Tested AirPlay devices", which I assume is correct.

I also fail to completely understand the meaning and implications of the second sentence: ‘Roon availability’ - Is this a reference to AirPlay ‘1’ standard compliance?; ‘Roon-derived software workaround’ - also not sure what this means. Was there already a special ‘workaround’ for Roon required before the Mu-so implemented AirPlay 2? - We know that Roon was/is not supporting AirPlay2 - in March Roon said:

The bit ‘Airplay 2 devices should work with Roon’ is probably crucial. Does Airplay 2 compatibility include / require correct handling of Airplay ‘1’ streams?

Naim’s answer continues to say:

Again - the first sentence is confusing in its use of ‘Roon compatible’ and appears beside the point, if the problem is with AirPlay / AirPlay2. The remainder only seems to try and put ‘blame’ with Roon, which does not bode well for collaboration towards a solution.

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You raise some interesting points that I believe only @support can answer.
The reason for my “optimism” is that Naim have always referred to doing “a fix.” So, I continue to be hopeful. :roll_eyes:

And so you should :+1:. The global ecosystem of hope is often underpopulated!
It certainly beats becoming a curmudgeon. I am halfway there. :wink:

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Just to say,myself and my colleagues with the same issue have been emailing NAIM and this week finally had some replies (all with different info may I add) have now been show this link. Much of what they where stating in some of their emails basically was completely contradicted by the info on this thread. The fact they couldn’t even grasp what was wrong or what the issue was and blaming it that the MUSO 1 was not ‘Roon Ready’ is poor at this level. It really is. I’d expect that from an Amazon Customer Service Rep in India getting paid 10p an hour to listen to the western world bitch about not getting their iphone by 9am.

Now their replies have stopped. Deadly silence. Back to back emails throughout a day, show link, then dead.

I spoke to one of the dealers I bought one of my Musos from today . to see if they could shed any light - they said they had already tried to talk to Naim about this issue and they have been ghosted also.

Blockquote
In my understanding the first sentence is true, but has nothing to do with the problem. I thought “Roon Ready” is about RAAT, and has nothing to do with AirPlay or AirPlay2 compatibility of the Mu-so? The (first generation) Mu-so was and still is listed by Roon under 'Roon Tested AirPlay devices", which I assume is correct.

Yes, I found the bug and opened it and have been maximially disappointed in response from Naim. I also have 20+ years tech experience and experience with dev teams. I judge Naim to either not know what they are doing and not understanding tech or ourright lying about the issue with the red-herring argument pointed out above and confusing the issues for everyone. RAAT != Airplay. I’m done with trusting Naim personally.

I think a good start would be that if anyone is on any more public audio forums, to begin a thread in that forum posting about these issues. I am sure once Naim realise that the minority can’t be silenced and its becoming public knowledge the disgraceful way they are handling this, they may buck up their act.

Still no reply from Naim since pointing this thread out…

Sorry not to add much to this, other than clock up another user with the same issue.

Generation 1 QB, used mostly in my summer holiday place, using Naim App to control.

Brought home for the off-season, November to February, and hoping to use with Roon, using Lowest Common Denominator of Airplay.

Sounds good, and provides multi-room with a mixed bag of Sonos items and a Marantz A/V amp.

Same issue of always starting on Max volume. Thanks for advice to limit Max Volume using Naim App.

Any updates gratefully received.

After my pal hassling Naim again (from his email account as they my other account now), Naim have officially declared this problem WONT be getting fixed and thats that even after pointing out again this is an AIRPLAY issue not a PRAAT issue so the whole 'roon compatibility is b*****) Suck it up basically. I definitely won’t be touching Naim again.

@PixelPopper - what are your thoughts on this as you’ve said you have a direct line to their Software manager?

Reply from Naim;

Thanks for your patience, I’m very sorry to report that this is an issue that the software team are aware of, but it is one that we are unable to currently resolve due to various factors.

The original Muso is not ROON compatible and the only real way to resolve this is to lower the Max volume in the Naim App to get around the volume change.

I’m very sorry but we are currently not able to help you with this issue, and you will have to persevere with your current workaround. I do know that this is not ideal - and again I’m very sorry for the inconvenience, but it is something that we cannot help you with at this time or ever.

That looks decidedly gloomy. I wrote to the Software Director last Friday but haven’t had a reply yet but that isn’t unusual, often it’s a couple of weeks before I get a response.

Well, count me as another disappointed customer, if they are serious about addressing and don’t have resources it would be wonderful if they offered us a path to upgrade. I would pay a sum to do so, to be honest, the volume at 100 issue is insane, ruins the naim experience for me. If roon and naim simply offered this remedy together I’m sure everyone would be happy, and it could be limited to those with roon subscriptions I suppose?

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Sidenote, I replaced my grace digital radio - which never correctly showed what it was playing under roon only - with a naim only to find another roon only problem! In the same room with totally different hardware. Insane

I have been thinking, for some time, that there are aspects of Roon software contributing to this volume issue but it is looking, increasingly, that there isn’t the will from Roon or Naim to do anything about it.

I understand - each company is small, does absolutely awesome work, I am very glad that each exist and does what they do, truly. Especially when it’s a complex software interaction I imagine this is a pain to address and it ain’t going to percolate to the top of either company’s radar given the numbers. Which just makes me think - roon & naim , rather than talk about issue with each other for so long with little progress but significant engineering effort, just offer us a trade in path and I’m sure many of this would take that route, or simply stick with the pain of a CCA stuck in the back

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A great idea, but unlikely to happen I suspect especially when the secondhand market has plenty of muso’s available :frowning: