MQA disappointing

(Martin Kelly) #1325

This thread has got seriously repetitive, and boring.
Now THIS looks so much more fulfilling than contributing to this nonsensical thread:


Brilliant! From the release information:


(String ) #1327

Sadly so doesn’t I think or believe that the most of the people in this Topic, understand that the XXXX I’m trying to explain to you about Linear Filter’s VS Minimum Filter’s, Right?
But you who are Musician’s and it doesn’t matter if you’re a Professional Musicians, Play for fun or working with different kinds around Music like @Chrislayeruk! I especially want to thank you Chris, because without people like you who’s spending so much of your time and experience to helping, supporting Live Music and for you it’s enough with a free/or even half the price on a dinner some free beers! Because you do it anyway and it’s priceless, I just wanted to give you a big Thank You!

But you who prefer the Linear Filter’s for us Musicians, so does the music sound like it’s not tight! Because it doesn’t matter if it’s live or on Album, the Musicians playing to a click track so the music will come together and everything at the same time!!!

So I prefer the Minimum Filter’s, because it’s sounds like music does live or on a Album!

The same thing is with MQA because it’s also sounds more like music in real life sounds!

But for people who don’t know or have heard a piano, acoustic guitar, cello or how a drum kit… sounds in it’s nature!
How can you expect to now it when you listen to a Album, now matter what kind of format it is?

On top of all this, so is it a matter of each person’s opinion of what we like and prefer to listening on!
Everybody haven’t the same taste of music style or sound, we don’t have it about food, cars, sports or anything else now matter what it is!
So why should we have it about Linear or Minimum Phase Filters Or MQA?
If we have been forced to like exactly everything in the world, well it would have been a sad world to living in, Or?

So let each person have their own opinions and stop complaining, because all people doesn’t have the same opinion or taste as yourself!
Be thankful for it instead, because life isn’t long enough for arguing with anyone who doesn’t have the same opinion about trivial small things, like Linear or Minimum Phase Filters Or MQA!

You will not have any Monuments Raised, when you dies anyway, you have a larger chance if you respect other people’s opinion!

But keep on your discussion about, Linear VS Minimum Phase Filters and if MQA is good or bad, it’s only your opinion that counts anyway because the Sun will go up tomorrow anyway!

Love & Respect


(crenca) #1328

No matter what filters you like, or what your room lot sounds like, or what recordings you like, or whatever you like…MQA has nothing to do with all that. You can get all that outside of MQA. MQA begins and ends with DRM - an “end-to-end” rent $scheme$. This is the truth, but it is hard to admit when you have been sold something and thought it was something else…

(ein) #1329

DSP not work with MQAs. MQA ready DAC work in MQA mode (full comp mode) and any DSP is automatically switch off. That is big disadvantage, especally today, when many streamers, all-in-ones… modern sources/effectors works with heavy DSP. Of course MQA is 100% DSPier, 100% native MQA-DSPier and 100% BLACKBOX. You have nothing to do with that. More and more disadvantages…

Mhm, they say Master Quality, the best… blah, blah, blah… not even close!

PS. Sometimes I like hear music via real time PCM-DSD conversion (22,5MHz - 512). With MQA you can not do that.


You can use Roon’s DSP after the MQA is being decoded, Roon will retain the renderer information so a MQA DAC will do final rendering, (Full MQA decoding).

(ein) #1331

You can use Roon’s DSP after the MQA is being decoded, Roon will retain the renderer information so a MQA DAC will do final rendering, (Full MQA decoding).

Yes, I know it, but its not native (its only on Roon, I think), so…


This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


Don’t use it then?

(crenca) #1334

It begs the question: what is authentication and “end to end” if your altering it?


This is your “truth”, to me the DRM argument is very overblown. I have no concerns about DRM. But I guess it has to be dragged up again, and again and again…


After the end, after delivery?

(Martin Kelly) #1337



About a month ago a well-known and widely respected audio designer took part in one of our blind tests. Before the test, he’d claimed he could easily hear the difference between MQA and HiRes and also between FLAC and WAV. The tests clearly demonstrated he couldn’t (neither the former nor the latter). Of course, he blamed this on our audio system and on the way the test had been carried out. That’s why we agreed to repeat the whole thing – with his own music, on his own system, in his company’s (acoustically tuned) listening studio (where they do all their own testing!). We also used the test method he demanded…

Surprise, surprise, he failed again. This time the results were even worse (score of less than 55%!!!). Unfortunately, I’m not allowed to tell you who I’m talking about. In fact, the guy explicitly warned us he’d sue us if we gave away his name…

(Jeremy) #1339

Not surprised at this. It requires training to know what to listen for and only someone who has trained themselves could reliably pick MQA from non-MQA. Like anything, training is required. In the case of MQA, it requires listening to multiple tracks of both MQA vs non-MQA for many many hours over days and weeks.

Once the training has been done, it is easy to recognize the characteristic MQA sound after replaying short specific sections back to back A to B about 5 or ten times. Specific sections are required as the difference is not always easily audible on every vocal and every instrument. It is often necessary to repeat up to 5+ times in order to be certain. Audio memory isn’t very good when it comes to detail. It is the same for compressed MPG or AAC files vs lossless - once you get to 320KBPS it is dramatically harder to identify the two. At 50 Kbps it becomes extremely obvious.

Anyone who claims hearing differences between identical FLAC or WAV of the same bit depth and sample rate either has an equipment or software issue or is dreaming. There is no difference at all in identical lossless digital files. I am certain of this. So your audio engineer claims are suspect to begin with but might serve him/her as a great marketing tool - I can hear things others can’t - use my services.

(ein) #1340

Mhm, exactly

(ein) #1341

Where is and what is „authentication”? Master, studio master, sound from master (mother of all tapes hue, hue, hue)… what, where and why (logic)?


That’s exactly what the DAC designer I talked about in my last post kept (and probably still keeps) telling people, too… (Unlike you, he says he loves MQA and says it sounds far superior…)

(Jeremy) #1343

Well that aspect is true. If there is an actual difference in the files and filter then it should be audible. Do you really doubt that? The only discussion is to what degree is the difference audible?

For a person who can’t identify MQA from non-MQA what is the point of MQA - no point at all. I think that despite disagreements on this thread - most people who try hard enough can hear audible differences and these folks could learn to identify one from the other given enough practice.

(Martin Kelly) #1344

Your analysis of WAV vs FLAC doesn’t take into account that compressed (albeit lossless) FLAC files need ‘unpacking’ by the renderer, usually a Roon endpoint/DAC/network player in our ecosystem, into LPCM. This ‘unpacking’ of FLAC vs the replay of uncompressed WAV/LPCM has been associated with current microvariances and a ‘loss of linearity’ within the DAC and its power supply. Some listeners therefore maintain that WAV does indeed sound better than FLAC, although any difference must be very small, or negligible depending on the system you’re using to listen to them.
So the situation isn’t quite as ‘black and white’ as you make it out to be, and may well be system dependant.
The same applies to your simplistic analysis of MQA vs FLAC/WAV. There are many published reports that state/claim that MQA can indeed sound as good as FLAC/WAV, and that it can be very difficult to distinguish between them, again depending on the system you use to listen to it.
Many, many years in this game has taught me to avoid derivative definitives. That’s because they don’t exist. I would respectfully suggest you do the same :sunglasses: