MQA first unfold in Roon? MQA? [Delivered in 1.5]

[miguelito (Miguel Barrio)]

When? Audirvana has had this for some time now. So does Tidal.

What is the holdup? MQA the company?

[miklats]

Na, might be they think MQA is a lossy codec.
Otherwise I see no reason to fall behind a one man show like Audirvana by months.

[miguelito (Miguel Barrio)]

I think it’s MQA (the company) not liking something about Roon, possibly the DSP features. Funny enough, A+ upsamples and can use any Apple AudioUnits post processing (and yes I am aware any post processing will result in renderers such as the Dragonfly not rendering MQA).

It’s a bit odd since those folks used to work together.

[RBM (René)]

@brian

We don’t estimate dates in public except for things that are extremely imminent (hours to a few away) and we only very rarely make statements about scheduling features to releases until those features are built and in alpha testing.

MQA is literally the last topic on earth that would provoke us to break that longstanding practice. There’s way too much attention and anticipation around it. If I said “X weeks” to you, someone else would notice and start counting down, and as soon as midnight passed on whatever day someone assumed we meant, our inboxes would be filled with complaints and grumbling if it wasn’t released yet.

Sorry, we’ve been there before, and we won’t do it again. We’ll share more when we can.

Let’s stop the ‘When is it ready’ threads. It’s coming – and it will be announced properly when it’s done.

[danny (Danny Dulai)]

@miguelito Asking “when” is a good reason for the moderators shutting down this topic, but your second question “what is the hold up?” is much more reasonable and deserves an answer.

Unfortunately, there are some sensitivities here that are both protected by NDA, and an active business discussion in progress, which prevent us from sharing further details.

Although we often share details about what is going on, please respect the fact that this is not one of those times.

You are free to speculate as you want, but you aren’t getting any more information from anyone here who actually knows anything.

I’ll reopen the thread here, but everyone, please try to be civil.

[miklats]

So then, what is the reason why a “one man show” like Audirvana is literally month ahead of Roon on that implementation?
I assume that must be deep, deep secrets.

[danny (Danny Dulai)]

We are totally different beast to Audirvana.

The biggest notable differences are:

1. inherently multi-zone
2. many networked partners, including open networked solutions like Roon Bridge
3. our service is a subscription service, not a 1 time fee

Technical implementation is not the problem at hand.

[miguelito (Miguel Barrio)]

I very much doubt there’s a technical issue at all because all DSP in Roon is done in the core, and the first unfold is configuration and DAC independent. Plus the binary already exists in both windows and mac platforms (tidal).

The issue must be entirely a business one and/or a spat between Roon and MQA/Meridian. Maybe there were some fingers waived during the split to create Roon. Pure speculation on my part.

BTW, I would not be surprised if a similar relationship issue (and middle finger waving) is why Auralic decided to do their own thing.

[miguelito (Miguel Barrio)]

@danny

1. inherently multi-zone
2. many networked partners, including open networked solutions like Roon Bridge
3. our service is a subscription service, not a 1 time fee

1- Can’t imagine why this matters - first unfold is the same as DSP and config/DAC independent
2- Get that if there’s a fixation with collecting royalties from everyone
3- Similar as 2

Issue is the insistance of squeezing royalties from everyone will not help MQA. It is breadth of usage rather than squeezing every drop that will allow them to survive.

Similarly, in my opinion the fact that many labels have jumped on is not indicative of much support. It is essentially free for Sony to say they will support it. The labels are just covering their assess. The reality is the resale-in-a-new-format is dead. Streaming is it. And labels can switch on or off the MQA bandwagon with very little cost.

It is only my making the demand strong that it will survive. I personally give it a small probability that MQA will be around in 10 yrs because it’s already been 2+ yrs the tech has been finished and MQA cannot get over their shenanigans.

[miklats]

Well, I dont understand the implications.
What exactly is it you want to tell @danny?
Is it just a waiting issue for us Roon users?
Or are these issues you mention prohibitating the first unfold in Roon alltogether?
@miguelito
I am just curious, because isnt the next Audirvana update bringing it closer to Roon with enhanced network capabilities?
Are there no issues with MQA?

[miguelito (Miguel Barrio)]

I have nothing to tell Danny. There’s nothing I can do to relieve the issues here. I’m just speculating.

On A+, yes there will likely be networked distribution here. I suppose MQA either will have to put up with it or pull support. If the latter, then I would say bye bye to MQA. Itwas a pain in the bottom to know about you.

[Tony_McEvoy (Tony)]

Is there a possibility that Tidal will start losing customers to Qobuz Sublime + and force MQA’s hand. Real possibility that if they don’t MQA will lose any trust that they have and will DAC builders bother if the format doesn’t take off or they start to question it. Think its been very badly managed so far.

[Henry_McLeod (Henry)]

Really? World domination doesn’t happen over night! I think they are doing well. The specialist DAC manufacturers were never going to come on board straight away. The market MQA are after is the mass consumer market who make ‘vanilla’ DACs. The rest will come on board in time.

[miklats]

@Henry_McLeod

World domination

Well, this here is not about some wet politician dreams, its just Roon decoding MQA to that first level and the problems involved in that.

[Henry_McLeod (Henry)]

The very thought really upsets you doesn’t it. Personally I couldn’t be less interested but this thread requires balance. So world domination it is!

[Ludwig (Ludwig van Marbach)]

@Tony_McEvoy

Think its been very badly managed so far.

Warner, Sony and Universal. Terrible management!

[andybob (Andrew Cox)]

Since we’ve got a licence to speculate let me play. Obviously I have no actual knowledge or I wouldn’t be free to talk like this:

• The Meridian/Roon separation may have had its ups and downs but fundamental respect and friendship endures, particularly on the technical side;

• Roon argued strongly to fully unfold MQA in software, based on Roon’s knowledge of the DAC, and elements within MQA supported such proposal;

• Other elements within MQA (let’s call them the Forces of Darkness or FoD for short) opposed full software unfolding, mainly because it would cannibalise the hardware licence model;

• The debate within MQA surged back and forth with external communications suffering from technical gaps in the way we’ve come to know and love (see High End Show 2016);

• The FoD prevailed, leading to a rupturing of relations with Auralic and a licking of wounds by Roon;

• Lawyers have become intimately involved with the negotiations, slowing the whole process down considerably while they weigh the Roon network model against the riding instructions from their MQA client.

[miguelito (Miguel Barrio)]

@Tony_McEvoy

Qobuz

There is no Qobuz in the US nor is it supported by Roon.