MQA first unfold in Roon? MQA? [Delivered in 1.5]

I buy that sequence of events line by line.

My point is Roon is an excellent service and well worth the subscription but with all the issues with MQA people would turn off Tidal in their droves if Qobuz was an available option. Itā€™s not unfortunately and unlikely to be . If another service integrated with Roon and offered hirez streaming they would leapfrog both competitors instantly . Is that a risk MQA are willing to take . There is s lot of disillusionment out there , whatever the reason for all the delays .

Roon is fantastic. I would hate not to have it. I frankly donā€™t think MQA matters at all (yet). If it becomes truly meaningful, then a solution will arise, I am sure, within Roon or otherwise. A+ is actually a pretty good piece of software. If it provided the seamless integration with the library that Roon provides it would be very compelling.

1 Like

I feel that the FoD do not understand the power of scale and that you need to give something to get something. There are plenty of firms in the graveyard of good ideas because the people running those firms did not understand negotiation.

I donā€™t see that relationship. MQA may offer SQ value but it is number 87 on my list of priorities. I want Roon, with a good cloud service, and DSP RC is primary, and after that I want mobility and cloud sync of metadata and content. And if all of that works, and MQA is available on top of that without conflict, Iā€™ll take it. But it wonā€™t influence any decisions.

(Note, @Danny.)

6 Likes

What are 1-86? (If for no other reason than not to discuss MQA)

3 Likes

So we can get away from mqa No.1 is s nice bottle of red !

1 Like

MQA sounds fine. Sort of. There are very few titles I care to even consider as of now. Two examples:

1- Joni Mitchellā€™s ā€œBlueā€ and ā€œBoth Sides Nowā€
They sound great, but not better than the high-res versions I have.

2- Morrisseyā€™s ā€œViva Hateā€
I love this album. The original version has mediocre sound. The MQA version does too.

Additionally I would say the improvement from upsampling with HQPlayer is generally on par or better than the improvement I have heard from some better sounding MQA releases. Except for those where the MQA release involves a remaster from the original source (in which case it is not really an MQA achievement per-se).

I am not one to start listening to any recordings simply because they are on MQA.

If the ā€œMQAā€ label tends to indicate something that was carefully produced, then I am all for this even if thatā€™s the only benefit. But like Anders said, it is not high on my list.

I started this thread out of curiosity as to what is taking so long. I got my answer: FoD. Not surprised.

One more point on MQA: Lets be very clear - the lack of DSP post ā€œfullā€ decoding is a ginormous achilles heel. In fact I have zero problem giving up rendering in favor of first unfold + upsampling. This is what FoD fears - and rightfully so: they will lose that battle.

Software unfolding to 24/96 in Roon would be nice since you get the vast majority of any ā€˜hi-resā€™ benefit without forgoing downstream signal processing or your preferred non-MQA DAC. Iā€™m sure itā€™s in MQAā€™s best interest to drag their heels until they can get more deals signed with DAC manufacturers so they can generate more royalties. Audirvana and the Tidal desktop app have more of a 1:1 relationship between the app and DAC, where Roon can stream to any number of different DACs from a single Core.

1 Like

I love the speculation (as long as it is noted that it is purely speculation)!

No spat ā€“ we are all professionals, and friendships built are hard to tear down. It was a dramatic split, but it has no negative impact on MQA + Roon. We are all friendly, I partook in many liters of frosty Bavarian mugs with members of the MQA team in Munich. This just happens to be business as usual.

We are always trying to push things forward, and that takes time.

@miguelito, The rest of your posts paint a picture a bit more confrontational and dramatic than reality, but still surprisingly accurate. I also strongly agree with your viewpoints on the industry + MQA, what it takes to be successful, and how to make it happen. However we must remember that there are many strategies to success.

yes.

nothing is prohibiting anything altogether.

[quote=ā€œandybob, post:19, topic:26336ā€]
The Meridian/Roon separation may have had its ups and downs but fundamental respect and friendship endures, [/quote]

You nailed this. Enno and I met with Bob Stuart and others from MQA at High End in Munich 2 weeks ago, and it was great to see them all, and I think I can say that they felt the same. It was both fun and productive.

They really are. Knowing Bob Stuart, all I can state is that that man is a mastermind of patience. Iā€™ve seen him wrangle established industries with such skill that would drive me and everyone I know mad. Their new(ish) CEO, Mike Jbara, is also especially competent.

Yes, and more. We arenā€™t interested in doing a me-too. We have ideas of what we want to offer, and it isnā€™t what anyone else is thinking. This takes time.

I wouldnā€™t go this far, nor would I call them FoD. This is not the movies. These types of organizations rarely exist (although I can definitely name at least one huge beast in the music industry).

Iā€™m not sure about ā€œwithinā€, but the rest of this should be obvious to all that have watching the MQA saga unfold.

This point I disagree with completely.

  1. There is no FoD.
  2. The rupturing of relations with Auralic can only be explained through compounded misunderstandings or calculated malice ā€“ but itā€™s usually safe to assume that calculated malice is never the actual reason.
  3. Roon couldnā€™t lick any wounds since we never made any investment of effort. Weā€™ve made this mistake before with Spotify, we wonā€™t make it again.

Hah! All sides involved here have creative business minds and unfortunately, they slow things down much worse than lawyers. Luckily, the results usually turn out good for all, instead of just making lawyers rich.

THIS. This, more than anything anyone has ever said on the subject of MQA.

@AndersVinberg ā€“ another topic for you to explore on the idea of whatā€™s important to audio and music lovers? Iā€™d love to read it ā€¦ and oh my, the debate it would create!

No no no ā€“ there is no evil, there is no darkness. Things just take time.

I agree, this is critical. If this is not allowed, then MQA becomes the Dolby of music audio, and innovation is stuck in the hands of a commercial entity that has no incentive to innovate. Mike Moffat & Jason Stoddard of Schiit state idea this well at about 9:49 into this video interview by John Darko.

As speculators outside the inner workings of these matters, it always impresses me how smart and insightful you guys can be sometimes. I shouldnā€™t be surprised, but itā€™s just human natureā€¦

I really wish I could tell you all the full story, as it is much more exciting and full of ā€œfuture makingā€ material. Maybe someday over drinks at some bar post-audio-show or at someoneā€™s ridiculous listening room ā€¦ far after all this is ancient history :slight_smile:

22 Likes

How about (for speculation) we consider iRoon ? Apple buy Tidal and Roon and do a deal with MQA. Who else is as good as Apple in making us want to update everything every 12 months? A new version of MQA every year would be very profitable.

Thanks for the feedback Danny , think a glass of red and a glass of patience is the best thing going forward !

3 Likes

I sure hope that never happens. Unneeded Firmware updates to damage product functionality. ā€œAppleā€ leads the way in screwing up a perfectly good working product with update-itis. :grinning:

1 Like

What they (Apple) usually do (at least on the professional graphics side) is buy up software companies, force people to run the application on Apple hardware only, then take a few key bits out of the software and bundle a watered down version in with their own free software, then abandon the package all together for their own dumbed down replacement, which leaves everyone scratching their heads for a while before going off to find an alternative from another vendor. Very sad to see from a company that once pioneered.

1 Like

Pardon my ignorance here, but MQA is nowhere near the top of my priorities. However, the latest firmware update for my Audioquest Dragonfly Red has enabled MQA support. I donā€™t normally use the Dragonfly with Roon, since I have other (non-MQA) DACs. If I play Tidal MQA files with Roon and the Dragonfly attached to a Raspberry Pi endpoint (tested previously, and it works), will I or will I not experience MQA? Thanks.

You will not. The Dragonfly is a renderer. That means it is dependant on software to do the first unfold, it then takes care of the second. Roon does not yet do any unfolding.

Only the TIDAL native app on mac or windows or Audirvana on mac can do the first unfold, which is required by the DF to render MQA.

Understood. Thanks for the quick and helpful response.

Thanks. I appreciate your help.