I am still unclear whether a ‘parent’ folder corresponding to the name/identity of a box set or a collection of files, say, which constitute a unified collection like the three acts of an opera negates the need to avoid ‘…continu[ing] incrementing the track numbers across disc boundaries’?
I have several multi-disc/box sets both of downloaded FLAC files and ripped CDs (classical: so determined by Work, not Artist) where the tracks’ actual filenames in the second and subsequent CDs’ subdirectories go against the directions given in the third example with Miles Davis here:
One thing that likely won't work…
because the filenames in each and every CD do not start with a ‘1’.
IOW, I have all CD 2’s filenames actually beginning with '2_'s; and CD 3 has filenames that start '3_'s, for example.
Or is it enough that these separate CDs are sub-directories and do all reside in a single directory, which unambiguously identifies the multi disc set?
What it states that likely won’t work is different naming of the folders when disc and track numbers are used in the track titles.
Since you have adopted the convention of having a folder representing the box-set, with sub-folders following the CD1, CD2…CDn convention; having the disc and track numbers included in the track titles should not matter. What will be important is to have correct track numbers (1 to n) in the track number metadata of the track files.
The example you show is using the convention of including the disc and track number in the track titles themselves, and it is logical that for CD2, the disc number should be shown as 2.
Have you actually tried importing these files and folders as they are? Did it work or not?
More than likely Many thanks for putting me right on this.
So is an example of this incorrect way of doing it:
Miles Davis - The Complete Columbia Album Collection CD1/
Miles Davis - The Complete Columbia Album Collection CD2/
where the name of each actual ‘set of child tracks’ (by that I mean the enclosing CD) belonging to their own (parent) CD are not the same?
But in that one case of mine (others are similar) in the screenshot the filenames will work because everything is enclosed by and various levels of children of an entire Box Set?
That’s what you’re saying, isn’t it?
Which I always do: easy in Yate.
Yes I have and - by and large - it seems to work. But my insistence on getting things like this as close to perfect as possible likes the idea of being sure !
Yes - the subfolders should just follow the CD1 … CDn naming convention, not have anything else in their names. And using file metadata to hold track numbers and track titles means that the filenames are no longer crucial for Roon’s identification process.
so well (and disc numbers nicely sequentially entered), I’m confident that I’ve got everything as it should be.
But:
There doesn’t need to be a correlation between any given track’s number and the title used, does there - largely because the latter (title) is likely to be text?
Well, the correlation is to ensure that you have matched the track number metadata with the correct track title metadata in a track file obviously, otherwise Roon will probably display incorrect information, e.g. the movements of a symphony will likely be displayed out of sequence.
The track filename does not need to match the track title metadata, if that’s what you mean.
I have numerous of CD boxes and never had a problem. Indeed, file naming and folder structure should be rather uninteresting for roon to group the CDs. Though, I always put all tracks of all box CDs in a single box/album folder without any sub-folders. I name all files like “[CD#]-[track#] [track title].[file extension]”.
Would be of great help if you could give us just one screenshot showing the file tags like album title, CD number, track number and the like for a file just from the “middle of the box” i.e. CD number greater than one. Not in roon but from some tagging tool or maybe from the file properties.
Two main things I always check with boxes before ripping
Always, really always, check for the album titles of each CD. Best done with some music tagging tools. All must be identical. Esp. album boxes are often tagged in a wrong way, given by several meta data services. Look for e.g. “…CD 2” in album titles. The CD number is often in the title which is absolutely nonsense. Delete these characters so that all CDs have an identical title. And set CD number tag properly. Different album titles always lead to separate CDs thus, no box is detected.
I enter CD numbers as “m/n”. Don’t know if simple “m” would work, though.
You should do all this before you start the ripping. Since if not, you have to change it all afterwards in each file.
My bad - if I didn’t make what I now understand and do clear. A typical structure (now that I’ve revisited the two dozen candidates about which I had doubts) is - in my watched folder, this hierarchy:
Baroque a generic folder for all such Albums.
Inside that, say, William Byrd - Songs and Psalms the name of the Album as bought and downloaded:
CD 1
track 1
track 2
track 3
etc
CD 2
track 1
track 2
track 3
etc
where two things are true:
1 - All of the Byrd CDs (and of course their contents) are only and always ever inside the William Byrd - Songs and Psalms subfolder to my watched folder’s ‘Baroque’ generic organize-by-period folder
2 - the tracks in CD 2 and subsequent can either be named:
1 - 1_work name
1 - 2_work name
etc so that the first numeric (1) corresponds only to its own world, that of a/any CD and not the second (etc) CD in the bought product.
Or:
2 - 1_work name
2 - 2_work name
etc so that the first numeric (2) reflects the fact that the CD in which it sits is in fact the second (etc) CD in the bought product
Am I understanding your rider here, please Mike?
Yes. Not Title but Album. Easy to do in Yate. One column throughout/common to all Discs and all Tracks.
Again, folder structure and file naming is not so important for a system than proper file tagging.
I would never recommend letting roon doing all the work since it also relies heavily an the tagging, not on the file naming. And adjusting meta data in roon will stay in roon, only in roon. Because the data you edit in roon won’t ever be written back to the files. So, for the future of your music files it’s best to do the tagging right with the files.
Folder structure and file naming is just for the sake of human readability. Do it as you like
And check filenames and the kind of correlations which Geoff advises. And folder structure.
But with multi (and I mean multi: for example all 13 CDs of Ashkenazy’s Chopin piano solo works, for instance), I feel that Merging is a good option - if for no other reason than that they would take up 13 x as much space in Roon’s ‘My Album’ viewer; and that were sold as a collection.
With multi it’s exactly the same thing. Folder structure and file naming are of no matter here. Do it as you like. The most important thing here is again the proper file tagging. All track files of a box must have the same album title, album artist and the proper CD number. And I guess the same album release date. Just all album specific tags. If this is given you can place and name the files however you like
BTW, merging is a must. And it’s pretty easy
Usually roon will detect such changes instantly and will show one single collection instead of multiple albums. Try it with one collection and you’ll see how easy it is.
Well, not quite. For box sets, folder structure and subfolder (not file) naming is important if you go for the structure of a main folder with subfolders per CD…
For human readability it is important, yes . But not for a system like roon. I personally organize folder structure as follows.
[artist name] or “compilations”
– [album name] or [collection name]
— track file with name as above
You see I keep single album and collection at the same folder level hence, a collection usually combines multiple CDs under the same album title i.e. collection name.
One exception here. Yes, you can get multiple (very) different albums in a single box. But then, the box is rather not a collection but just a box
One thing that likely won’t work is having all the discs of a box set separated into album-level directories, like this:
Music/
Miles Davis - The Complete Columbia Album Collection CD1/
01-01 Track.flac
01-02 Track.flac
…
Miles Davis - The Complete Columbia Album Collection CD2/
02-01 Track.flac
02-02 Track.flac
…
Okay, a bit strange, since they say “likely”. Maybe this negative example assumes all tracks of a collection CD having the same tagged album title as the collection CD folder. This is done exactly like this by many ripping apps per default. And there are many meta data sets from different tag providers which show exactly these nasty CD numbers in the tagged albums’ titles. And this is garbage
But anyway, I wouldn’t go for separate folder names depending on CD number, just for simplicity
For me, this says it all, Geoff; thank you. IOW - if you pay attention to the specifics - you’ll get it right; as I believe I’ve now done, thanks to the guidance in this thread
Many thanks for putting me right on this.
. But not for a system like roon. I personally organize folder structure as follows.