My economy streamer recommendation

Audio Gear Talk
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May I recommend an inexpensive endpoint of surprisingly high performance? First, allow me to offer background information - my system consists of:

Roon core on an M2 Mac mini with a Seagate 6TB music library disc
Wired Ethernet connection from the Mac mini (in a computer room) to my living room
Apple TV, Gen. 3 in my living room with an Ethernet input & a TOSLINK optical output
Emotiva Stealth DC1 DAC
Emotiva PA-1 mono power amplifiers
GoldenEar Triton 3+ speakers

I had previously tried an ifi Zen Stream as my streamer, connecting its USB output to my DAC’s input. Although it sounded OK, I wondered whether I could be as satisfied with a less expensive streamer.

The Apple TV-3 has two strikes against it to start with. It converts all incoming music streams to DVD-standard 96/24 output. Although some claim that a higher sampling frequency and greater bit-depth is always better, this may or may not be so. How accurately the conversion is done affects the quality of the output and Apple is notoriously less than forthcoming on how their conversions are done. Since almost all of my music library is 44/16 (CD-standard), the Apple TV will never have a bit-perfect output. So strike one.

Strike two is that the optical TOSLINK transfer is notoriously jittery as compared to USB transfer. Many claim that the jitter of optical interfaces is audible. Although this may or may not be true, my DAC has a “golden bullet” that will slay the jitter issue.

The Emotiva Stealth DC1 DAC has an asynchronous buffer and reclocker on ALL of its digital inputs. So when the optical signal arrives at the Emotiva DAC, the signal is buffered and then re-timed by the internal clock prior to feeding the actual DAC chip. This “insulation” makes any jitter on the optical interface moot.

So how does my rig sound with the Apple TV acting as a Roon endpoint? Every bit as good as the ifi Zen Stream! And now for the best of the news - The Generation 3 Apple TV can be had on eBay for as little as $10.

Be aware that I haven’t tried this with any earlier models of the Apple TV, and that the new Generation 4 Apple TV models don’t even have a TOSLINK optical output any more - they’re HDMI only. Also be aware that Emovita is one of the (very few) companies that even offer asynchronous inputs for their optical interfaces.

Nevertheless, the Apple TV, Gen. 3 is worth looking into if you need an endpoint for other rooms in your house.

Boomzilla aka Glenn Young

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So this is using Apple’s AirPlay to get the bits to the streamer, right? Or does Roon have an app for the Apple TV?

You’re talking about the DAC? I thought most DACs have S/PDIF optical inputs.

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There is a 3rd party extension from a forum member for Apple TV:

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Hi @Bill_Janssen - No - Apple AirPlay is not part of the loop. Roon recognizes the Apple TV as a legit endpoint, and happily Ethernets to it via DLNA.

Yes - TOSLINK is an SP/DIF interface, at least in this case, unless I’m mistaken. My DAC treats it the same as every other digital input, buffering and re-clocking the stream before sending it to the actual converter chip.

And lastly, NO additional software is necessary. Roon to Apple TV to DAC works perfectly.

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Hi there, Mr. @AMT -

Yes, the items you propose will work fine, but they cost money. My entire goal in trying the Apple TV was to see if I could maintain top quality sound without spending extra. An Apple TV is available every day on eBay for about $10 (often with free shipping).

The reason I bothered to write about it is that I think my experiment WAS successful - The Apple TV with no additional software or hardware sounds as good as every other streamer I’ve tried up until now, including the ifi Zen Stream and the Auralic Aries (Gen. 1).

Perhaps not every DAC will provide as good a result as my Emotiva because many DACs lack asynchronous modes on their optical inputs.

But even so, if you want a cheap endpoint for your children’s rooms, for your garage, patio, or other area - I know of NOTHING ELSE that can be had for $10 that will work so well.

Glenn

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Hi, Glenn. Great you’ve found something like this!

Roon really really doesn’t like DLNA. I suspect you’re using AirPlay over Ethernet.

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I’ll put up a vote for the Wyse 3040 thin client if you can’t get your hands on a Pi. Plenty of horsepower to be a RoonBridge and run something else (like a Pihole instance) on Ubuntu. Regularly $30 on eBay. More if you insist on WiFi - or at least harder to find.

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Hi again, @Bill_Janssen -

You bring up an interesting point. How would I tell if Roon was accessing Apple AirPlay for Ethernet transfer? I see nothing in the Roon controls on my iPad that mention AirPlay. I was under the impression that unless RAAT was being used, the Roon default was DLNA. Am I wrong?

Thanks - Glenn Young

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Hi @Johnny_Ooooops -

Is $30 the TOTAL cost of the item you recommend, or is there additional cost for a case, a power supply, etc.? Your recommendation is still a good value for someone needing an economy endpoint, but I still contend that the Apple TV may be cheaper (although it will be used). The Apple TV-3 comes with internal power supply, built in WiFi, Ethernet input, and both HDMI and TOSLINK outputs. For its capabilities, I know of nothing else in its price range that can compete. Another plus is that Apple products are typically quite durable, and (at least for the Apple TV and AirPort Express products) offer decades of reliable service.

Cordially - Glenn Young

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Roon never uses dlna as far as I understand. L

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Totally agree, if you’re looking for simplicity and TOSLINK, then you’ve got a very inexpensive Wiim-like device with those older AppleTVs.

I’m 100% usb, and just want a stable RoonBridge. $30 (I just got one for $28) includes power supply, 2GB memory, 8GB storage and an old Atom processor - all in a nice sturdy package (way more confidence inspiring than most RPi cases). Unlock BIOS, install Ubuntu, install RoonBridge, you got a tiny server. If you want one with WiFi you may have to hunt for a while or use a dongle. But they come up all the time. 4W power consumption. A neat little project. But a project nonetheless.

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How cool, @Johnny_Ooooops -

I may have to try one just for comparison with the Apple TV! What are the devices called on eBay? They don’t actually advertise them as “Roon Bridge,” do they?

Also, how much Linux will one need to know for the install? I do have Linux tech support available from some members of the local Mac user’s group (Baton Rouge Mac Users’ Group or “BRMUG”), but I hate to bug them unless I need to - I can be a pest…

Thanks for the info!

Boom

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+1 on that.
Bought one blind a couple of years back.
Absolute steal for the money.

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Read this thread and see if you’re up to it. This project is more involved than the Ropieee for instance, or the RooExtend - especially if you get one with a locked bios. But it took me 15 minutes, and I’m not exactly talented.

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Interesting post. I use two Roon Bridges or Endpoints: the Zen Stream (my favourite) and the Hegel H120. Both yield excellent sound. I also own an Apple TV, albeit the model with HDMI only, which I use for movies (the TV is connected to the H120 via optical cable). Last night I almost accidentaly decided to try the Apple Music App on the Apple TV and was surprised with the good quality of the sound. And, yes, the Apple TV also shows as a Roon End Point, so I suppose it would work well as a Roon Bridge. I don’t like the idea of having my TV on anytime I listen to music, but it in any case it works better than I expected. Cheers

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Hi, Glenn. The simplest thing to do is to click on that little colored dot down there in the track display, while something is playing. It brings up your signal path, and will show you what transport is being used.

No, it’s just that you haven’t read enough of the Roon Mastery series yet. :rofl:

Roon speaks a number of protocols, but not DLNA.

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For what it’s worth, the Apple TV talks Roon’ish via Airplay.
But the ATV’s default to AAC encoded ALAC audio at 48Khz which to me sounds horrible. And that kind of massacre on the audio signal is hardly mitigated by your Emotiva. Some might like it, but to me it’s unlistenable… (on any of the DAC’s i have available)
But, you are of course correct, you will get am audio signal out of a cheap little device which have many other useful treats.

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I’ve started out with a WiiM Mini, which connected through its optical output sounds pretty good. Analog wise… not so much. It can handle up to 24/192. And Roon can access it through AirPlay, with of course the AirPlay resolution limitations.

As mentioned before. The WiiM Home app is very good. In my opinion it beats my Marantz’s HEOS and my Cambridge’s StreamMagic.

I have 3 devices in use here that Roon can access through RAAT : Cambridge Audio CXNv2 (Roon Ready), iFi Zen DAC V2 and Loxjie D30. The latter 2 being pure DAC’s while the Cambridge is a network streamer DAC.

If you look for great value, the WiiM Mini (and Pro) are excellent choices. Just hook them up digitally as their onboard DAC isn’t that great.

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Hello.

I use the new Apple TV 4K as a streamer for Apple Music and control everything via the Home app and the Music app.
The shortcut app controls that the playback is automatically transferred to the Apple TV.
So every time I want to listen to music, I just have to open the Music on my iPad or iPhone, as well as other residents in “Home”, can then control the Apple TV.

Apple Music plays lossless with up to 24 bit / 48 kHz.
That’s enough for me. The sound quality is top.
Whether bit perfect or not.
The DSP oversampling probably intervenes here and it is no longer bit perfect anyway.

My amp has a built in DAC with HDMI, a T+A PA 1100 E.
Link: PA 1100 E Integrated Amplifier with DAC (ta-hifi.de)

Is it possible to use the Apple TV as a Roon endpoint?

Is that then via AirPlay 1 or AirPlay 2?

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I believe Roon only sends AirPlay 1.