NAS Required or SSD ext disk?

Audio Gear Talk
1

I’m way behind the times with my knowledge of external file storage. At present I have ROON running on my iMac which also holds 1TB of ripped CD files. So all is in one box and it works well, with periodic backup to an external 4GB hard disk drive.

The Mac is over 6 years old now and I’m starting to think of changing to a current SSD based model. But the cost of 2TB of SSD storage via Apple is very high. So I wondered if I would be better off with some sort of external storage for the CD files (I’d still run ROON on the Mac). Would this simply require a connected hard disk (for example . . SanDisk Professional 2TB G-DRIVE SSD, Portable External NVMe SSD, Up to 1050MB/s, USB-C (10Gbps), USB 3.2 Gen 2, Thunderbolt 3 . . . at about £250 or do I need a full blown NAS drive ? Also how might backups be organised ? If I opted for a two bay NAS would this be capable of backing up from one bay to the other in its own right ?
Thanks

2

The music can be stored on an external USB drive so there should be no performance issue. It is only the Roon database that wants to be on a fast SSD drive for best performance.

I have a couple of WD portable drives that I use for backup of my backups and having tested them they have worked perfectly with Roon on my Mac and Windows.

3

For library file storage (not the database), you don’t need anything particularly exotic.

An external SSD supporting USB3 (any variant), USB-C or Thunderbolt 3/4 would be fine.

If the SSD is only used for library file storage, then writes to the disk will be very few (only when new albums/tracks are added) so an SSD would be a particularly good bet as it will be more reliable than a hard disk because there will be no significant wear.

In addition, SSD’s will cope with streaming multiple different tracks better than spinning disks because they have a near zero seek time.

In the UK a 2TB USB3.x SSD can be found for under £150 and a 4TB one for under £300.

Alternatively, if it works out cheaper, you could buy an internal SSD and an appropriate case/caddy.

Be aware, however, that many of the external SSD’s use SATA SSD’s internally which will limit their datarates to 600Mbps. This is not a problem for audio media (600Mbps is sufficient for more than 10 768kHz/24bit audio streams) but there will not be much point in paying extra for a 10Gbps USB3.2 gen 2 or Thunderbolt interface. A normal USB 3.0 interface will be more than adequate.

Getting a NAS just for the primary storage music media files would appear to be overkill. However, one thing to bear in mind is data security. An external SSD (or even a NAS) that holds the only copy of your music files, is prone to a single point of failure (even if RAID storage is used on the NAS) and so you should always have a backup. If you have access to sufficient cloud storage, that would be a good place to start. If not, a NAS (and/or an external harddisk that can be stored remotely) would be a good idea for holding backups of your music files.

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4

Thanks, very helpful.
So the plan might be to buy a 2TB ext SSD drive, wired to the IMac and simply direct ROON there to find the ripped library.
When it comes to ripping a CD I assume I can continue to use my CD drive, wired to the Mac and using XAct to convert to FLAC and direct output to the SSD.
As for backups, my 4TB hard disk has a copy of the FLAC files ( whole disk image via Apple Time Machine) . Presume I could manually copy the SSD files to that ?
Only caveat might be the deplorably low number of connections the IMac has (SSD, 4TB drive, CD player, connection to hook up bicycle Garmin etc all needed). Expect I would need a cecent hub.

5

Many people, myself included, rip CD’s to an intermediate location so that results and meta-data can be reviewed and/or edited before they are seen by Roon.

That would certainly be one option. It gives you some kind of fault tolerance in that it is unlikely for both disk to be connected to the Mac at the same time as something catastrophic happens (power surge for example).

A good USB 3.2 Gen 2 hub would solve this issue and would be fine for connecting a CD drive for ripping purposes. Just be aware that the USB bandwidth is shared - and not always equally - between devices connected to the HUB. For example, a 50Mbps USB 2.0 device (480Mbps) will use ~10% of the available USB bandwidth no matter what USB standard the HUB offers (unless it is USB 1.0 :frowning: in which case it will be 100% and throttled at that!).

USB CD drives tend to only offer USB 2.0 connectivity because that is more than adequate for a CD drive.

None of this is an issue if you are not intending to use multiple high data rate USB devices at the same time. E.g. Ripping to an internal disk (SSD hard disk - it does not matter) and then moving the files to an USB connected SSD as a separate operation is easier on a USB hub than ripping the CD directly from a USB CD drive to a USB connected SSD.

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6

I’ve always used hard drives for external storage, and I’ll probably continue to do so until either hard drives are phased out or the price gap becomes insignificant. As @Michael_Harris said, there is no real need to keep music on SSD. I am not using a NAS, but I’m using the next best thing: a USB enclosure with two HDD in RAID 0. Read speed is around 250MB/s, which is more than enough for streaming any music format.

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7

Either will work.

Hard disks have the advantage of larger available capacities and are usually cheaper - sometimes considerably so.

SSD’s, for this application (holding music files) would be more reliable (over a long term - 5 years or more), lower power consumption and quieter - especially if they are always on.

My local library is not large - it will fit on a 2TB ssd with plenty of room to spare - so I have gone the SSD route - but you do not need the lastest and greatest (fastest) SSD. A SATA SSD is more than adequate.

If my library was greater than 4TB, the capacity question would push me towards a hard disk solution. Between 2TB and 4TB, then it’s a question of priorities - cost vs reliability and quietness.

Note: This argument is specifically for album/track storage where there are very few writes and reads do not need to be blindingly fast. In other applications, the arguments are very different.

8

In my case, the external discs serve as backup for all my data, not only my music library, and right now it is pushing 8TB.

9

If your music library is on the disk used for data backup, where does the music library get backed up to?

10

You mean, where does it get backed up from? I have a copy on my PC and another in the cloud. My PC doesn’t run 24/7, but the external drive is connected to an older laptop which does run 24/7 and hosts the music server, and the combination works as an uber-NAS.

11

OK. That situation is different from that of the OP who was asking about using external storage to ‘host’ (ie primary storage) his music library when replacing his iMac so that he could save money by not specifiying a multi-terabyte internal SSD.

12

What’s not different is that putting it on HDD instead of SDD still saves a ton of money, and that you still need a backup.

13

Just knew things would get complicated. So please bear with me as I try to unravel this knot . . .
So, let’s take a possible scenario with devices labeled A (IMac) and B, C etc as external drives ( whether SSD or conventional hard disk).

  1. I buy an IMac with 512 GB storage. This runs ROON Core and the other normal stuff I do on a desktop. A
  2. I add an external SSD drive to house my ROON library of ripped CDs ( I’ll also store photos there). B ROON Core is directed to this drive.
  3. What about backing up - both for music files on B and other stuff on A. Where does Time Machine fit in ? As I understand it, TM copies a disc image of the IMac. Presumably this would overwrite files on A, thus messing up my music library.
  4. Should I add a second external drive C and direct TM to that ? Could I then manually copy music files from B to C to sit alongside the TM image.
  5. Can an external disc be partitioned so that partition W holds the ROON library, partition X the photos, partition Y the TM image ? I would still need a second external drive to manually create a copy of the ROON library for safe keeping.

Can TM be configured to automate any of this copying process ?
I’m assuming that, via a suitable hub, copying between SSD drives on the Mac and between external devices can be done.

Price of 2TB of storage on IMac is £800 ( how do Apple sleep at night)
Price of 2 x 2TB SSD drives less than £300 ( plus hub).

I guess the easiest and most convenient approach is just sucking up Apple prices for a 2TB Mac ( I can continue to use my conventional 4TB ext drive for a whole TM backup). Is it worth the extra £450 ???

14

Even if you bought the 2TB Mac, you would still need an external hard disk for backup purposes. This would cost about £70 (but you would not need a USB hub) - so the total cost of the ‘large capacity Mac’ solution over and above the cost of the basic Mac would be nearer £900.

On the other hand, you could opt for 2 external USB devices - one for library storage (your B device) and one for backup purposes (your C device). If your went for the cheapest option that offers 2TB, the two USB hard disks would be about £70 each. Add in £20-30 for a good USB 3 hub and that would give an extra cost over the basic Mac of ~£170. However, this plan also gives more flexibility. 4TB hard disks are about £100 so two of those could be used for a total cost of about ~£230.

Despite the reservations of @Marian, I would seriously consider a 2TB USB SSD (~£150) for device B with a 2 or 4 TB hard disk for the backup device C. The reason for my preference for the SSD is that, used solely for media files, it will last longer than a harddisk (no moving parts to wear out). However, in respect of the backup device, @Marian is absolutely correct. There is no need to use expensive SSD storage for backup - so your C device should always be a Hard Disk.

Whichever solution you adopt, I would tend to ‘go large’ for the backup device - say 4TB or even larger - so that you can use it to backup everything. Not just the music media files.

Whichever way you go, the hard disk used for backup should not be permenantly connected to the MAC (or the HUB). This serves two purposes (the first being the primary one):

  1. It elliminates, for the most part, a single point of failure damaging both the online copy (your device B) and your backup (your device C) at the same time. The only time that you are vulnerable to that is when you actually connect the backup device for the purposes of performing a backup. Such events (like, for example, a power surge to the USB hub that is powering the two devices), are rare - but they do happen.
  2. It means that the hard disk does not wear out due to mechanical wear incurred at times other than during backup. (Even when disks are allowed to go into their low power sleep mode, they will still spin up when the Mac is powered on for a little while).

You may also be able to backup to a cloud service if you have one - and it has enough storage space. This is the safest because it is inherently off site (so catastrphic events like fire or flood will not affect it) - but it is also the slowest to access - both for backup and for restore - by a long way. Personally, I would consider this as well as the local hard disk backup - so that you would only use a restore from the cloud if, for some reason, your local hard disk backup was corrupted. This is the backup regime that @Marian described.

If you are paranoid about backup, and don’t have a cloud service with sufficient storage, you could consider using two backup hard disks and keeping one off site (at the office or at a relative’s/friend’s house - or anywhere that is not inside your house). However, this becomes awkward to manage to some extent because your have to periodically retrieve the second backup from what ever location, update the backup and then put it back in its remote location.

I’m afraid I’m not a Mac user, so I can’t help with TimeMachine.

15

Thanks, that makes sense. I already have a 4tb hard disk used as backup via Time Machine. TM seems to be the thing I need to understand.
Sure, I can keep the ROON library ( and photos) on the B SSD (2 tb should suffice).
But I need to backup the non ROON stuff on the Mac. Currently I just use TM.
If I continue to do that ( i.e. A to the 4tb hard disk via TM) can I then manually copy B content to the space left on the 4tb drive ? Or does TM overwrite the whole disk each time it does a backup. Or can I divide the 4tb drive into two partitions - then use 1 partition for routine TN backups and partition 2 to hold manually copied files from B ? I’ll need to go ask questions about how TM works … .

16

I think I’ve got it ! Assuming I get a 2tb SSD for the ROON library . .
I can create two APFS volumes on my 4tb drive - 1tb dedicated to TM backups and 3tb to music and photos back up.
This drive can just be turned on periodically ( say, once a week to do the TM stuff). If I have made changes to music and photo library I can manually copy those across from the A drive to the larger partition on the 4tb drive.
Still a bit more fiddling than a 2tb Mac but over £600 cheaper.
Cost on top of a new IMac - £140 for SSD plus perhaps £30 for a hub !
Now, anyone fancy a 2017 2tb Imac ?

17

As I said before, I’m not at all familiar with TimeMachine on the Mac so what I am asking may be nonsense.

Can you get TimeMachine to backup both the Mac and the USB storage used for Roon Library files in one go?

If you can, can you use TimeMachine to do partial restores?

If you can do both, you would not need to partition your backup disk.