I’m seeing strange behavior with a classical composition in my library, specifically Brahms’ String Quartet No.1 (String Quartet No. 1 in C minor, Op. 51/1). I’ve been on a classical kick lately, so I never noticed before today, but until an hour or so ago Roon showed no recordings of this in my library, despite the fact that performances of the piece are identified on at least 4 albums in my library (the albums themselves are also identified). I was able to get one of the recordings to show up, but only after manually adding the work and part tags in mp3tag:
This is not the end of the world because (I think) I know the other albums that have the piece, but it is strange. This is what it looks like on an album that does not show up under the recordings. The piece is clearly identified in this album:
The small purple circular disk to the left of ‘127’ in your case:
means other recordings of the same composition of which Roon is aware. It doesn’t (necessarily) relate to those which you may or may not have in your Library.
Right, if I click on the composiiton, or the
it should take me to the composition and there should be (or i imagine there should be)127 recordings available in Qobuz. What’s confusing me is there is not a 4, or whatever number I have in my library, next to it. The last image I posted is from the Takacs Quartet Hyperion release of the 1st and 3rd quartets. Notice that the 3rd string quartet has the 114 and a 4, which designates the number of recordings of that piece in my library.
My apologies: I don’t think I understand your question .
If you’re concentrating on anomalies specific to the way Roon handles ‘Classical’ music, you have probably revealed the difference (control over which Roon is surely hopefully still developing) between the way that ‘Classical’ music prioritizes the composer then the composition; whereas other genres seem (as far as I can tell - not my field) to identify by artist then ‘item’, which seems always to be called a ‘song’, regardless of whether or not it is actually sung.
My assumption would be that - unless Roon is correctly deriving a unique ID tag for Brahms Op. 51/1 - it may not be finding others in your Library because they are named differently… ‘Opus’, ‘I’, ‘No.’, ‘No’, ‘Number’ etc.
The disc icon and number shows how many known recordings of this composition exist, including streaming… The book icon and number (which you can click as well) shows how many of those recordings are in your library.
…I was able to get one of the recordings to show up, but only after manually adding the work and part tags in mp3tag:…
That’s OK and to be expected. If you use Yate for tagging, you can have it batch split the Title field into Work and Part (semi-)automatically - and in accordance and full compliance with what Roon expects.
No worries, Mark, and thanks for trying to help. Roon does handle Classical differently than pop, jazz, rock, etc. There’s no shortage of threads of people with problems getting Classical recordings, albums, and compilations (especially box sets) to look like they want them too. I actually like the way Roon handles them as I’ve come to be familiar with how it works. I have a large number of classical needle-drops of old LPs that are not identified in Roon, so I’ve come to be pretty decent at tagging classical albums to get them to behave in a way that identifies compositions, which is why i am perplexed by this case.
Suedkiez’s post/quote points out my problem exactly
The disc icon and number shows how many known recordings of this composition exist, including streaming… The book icon and number (which you can click as well) shows how many of those recordings are in your library.
There’s no book icon and number next to the identified composition of the String Quartet No. 1 on any of my library albums that have it identified, including the one I manually tagged to ensure the composition is identified. Roon identifies classical compositions using the TiVo/AllMusicGuide composition names, which are easy enough to look up on AllMusicGuide. As far as I can tell there’s no reason that any of the 4 instances of this composition in my library should not have the Book cover icon and the Number 4 next to it.
I’d have thought that the only reason is that Roon must have failed to identify the four versions which you have as one and the same work.
Since I began using Roon (now a lifetime subscriber; and happy with that) four or five years ago, its handling of Classical music has improved. And periodically there are rumours of further enhancements.
Fingers crossed.
In fact, it may be fanciful, but I have a feeling that it ‘learns’ in its recommendations. I used to get all sorts of material which I would never listen to pushed my way. Now it’s much better at really ‘understanding’ my preferences.
Also a lifetime subscriber here, and I agree the handling of classical has significantly improved. Honestly this is a minor issue that doesn’t really bother me that much, I’m just stumped and would like to know what if anything I am missing here.
I note the top image is from the Philips Italiano box , you haven’t split a disc from the set have you. It may be that the recordings that don’t show are on unidentified albums
Are you sure you have disabled the option “show only complete recordings”?
As this quartet is a multi-movement composition, roon would otherwise not show recordings which are not specifically marked as complete in the Tivo database even if they are actually complete. Data is not accurate on that matter.
See if this makes a difference for you. When you open the composition and scroll down to the recordings list, open the pull-down menu and turn off “Only complete recordings” (it is on by default).
Correct, it is the Quartetto Italian box set, and it is not split. I used to split box sets like this before I subscribed to Qobuz, but once I was able to get individual albums form Qobuz I went back and merged all my box sets.
I never had much trouble with split box sets, though admittedly I always did the work to change disc and track numbers to make the split albums appear as their own. Anyway, good idea to check, but that does not seem to be the issue.
Arindal and mSpot, I have tried the Complete recordings option in both the on and off settings. The setting was originally set to off. No changes. oddly, once again this morning I am back to having 0 recordings in my library. I seem to have lost one other recording as well.
I’d like to thank everyone who contributed. Turns out the solution was the tried and true “turn it off and turn it back on.” 3 restarts later and we’re good:
Thanks for the discussion! I put four or five box sets on, and they are so disorganized now. I will have to read this a few times. But, when you want to listen to a few different performances you want to pull them all out, easily.
And, hey, a new Quartet for me- the Italian Quartet!
John K
can we safely take it from @mike’s post that Roon uses this setting/option essentially to suppress recordings of ‘snippets’, incomplete sections of classical works? And not what Brian seems to be experiencing here… recordings named differently and so assuming thew appearance of incompleteness?
If so, that seems useful; so is there a way to set this globally, please?
Understanding how to tag files will greatly improve your classical experience in Roon.
I’ve found it takes some work to curate your files, but I personally find the benefits far outwiegh the costs. Just keep Conductor, Ensemble, Personnel, and Soloist front of mind and you won’t go wrong.
Also, i cannot reccomend the Quartetto Italiano (fyi Roon lists them as the Italian Quartet) enough, especially in Beethoven and Schubert.
The show complete performances does filter out incomplete performances of an entire work. I have a couple Sviatoslav Richter box sets, and he was fond of playing individual movements of compositions as encores. These live performance ended up released by the likes of Philips, DG, and Melodiya. The option in Roon prevents all those single movements from showing up as entries in the recordings list of the composition.
I am not sure, but i think it is automatically applied globally when you set it, even though you interact with it in the composition page.
Yes, that is the intended purpose of the “Only complete recordings” setting. The problem is that it works imperfectly. As @mike said, Roon is utilizing a “complete performance” flag from metadata, but we all know how inconsistent and unreliable metadata can be.
I have found it fairly common that with the setting turned on, some complete recordings will be missing. I would look at a recordings list and have a thought like, “Wait, I thought Rudolf Serkin has recorded this work”. Therefore I have turned it off for myself, and I feel that it should be off by default.
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