I’ve never looked closely at what Roon offers via OPRA.
I’ve just started making a lot more use of my SennHeiser HD 800 S pair.
Using Muse, I have 27 presets for that model.
What’s the best way (apart from experimental listening with each one) to know what each preset does, please; and how best to use it?
I listen to exclusively ‘classical’ (chamber, choral, opera, symphonic, vocal etc) music…
Thanks in advance!
OPRA was developed in conjunction with oratory1990 data so try these first. Also try his Harman target
After that crinacle is the next most common measurer
As far as I know AutoEQ refers to the software used to measure the response so are probably all much the same just measured by different people
FWIW I tried a lot of the HD800 ones and still use no EQ
Thanks, Mike!
I need a source that starts a little bit further back still… just not an audio expert and could benefit from some basic background!
I agree about the HD 800s; just a little bright and over-forward at times, maybe?
I would try Oratory1990’s own EQ settings, rather than those from AutoEQ based on his measurements. They’re not the same. There are 3 for the HD800S listed under “HD800S” (no spaces). The list under “HD 800 S” (with spaces) contains a mass of EQs including Oratory1990’s.
If the corrected response still needs a little bit of extra colour you could always add a quasi Baxandall tone control. I use one sometimes based on low shelf f=80Hz Q=0.5 and high shelf f=8000Hz Q=0.5.
As an aside I’m afraid I couldn’t get along with the HD800S. Too much like dinner plates on the side of the head for my liking, tending to leak below the ear/jaw. Besides the unit I bought had a low level driver buzz in the bass on the left side so needed to be returned anyway.
Giles - many thanks!
Thanks. Yes, I know just what you mean. They are certainly neither lightweight nor unobtrusive, are they!
At the same time I was researching, I also toyed with Focal.
May I ask: any thoughts on that make/company etc; of any others for that matter in that price and purpose (exclusively ‘classical’ (chamber, choral, opera, symphonic, vocal etc) bracket, please?
Great. Appreciated. Have started using that without-the-space :-).
Ashamed to admit, I really don’t know enough about the likes of Baxendall, low or high shelves etc, or Oratory 1990. Wish I did. Am prepared to learn 
Is there a site, source, books or other docs etc that you (or @Mike_O_Neill , or anyone else) would recommend that could get me started on the basics of EQ for headphones, please?
Again, your guidance greatly appreciated!
Well, headphones are very personal, not only in perceived response, timbre, etc (ear pinna and canal shapes are unique) but also in fit and comfort. Being of a certain age I find many over-ears simply don’t fit my ears these days. I’ve been tempted by Focal too, but their cushions err on the small side I’m afraid. For now I’m back with my old HD650s and, when conditions dictate, some interesting Aune AC55 on-ear clip 'phones which are surprisingly Sennheiser-like when sensibly EQ’d.
You could always head over to headphones.com and check out the reviews there. Also rtings.com.
Google is your friend. EQing from scratch using a Parametric EQ can actually be quite difficult so I’d suggest working from a recommended PEQ profile such as Oratory’s. Make minor tweaks, listen a while, flip back and forth A<>B (which MUSE makes quite easy). Whatever sounds good to you is the correct solution!
Thanks again, Giles!
I’ll look at those two sites. It’s been so long since I last did that. I tend to do a huge amount of research at the time; then to buy what emerges above the rest (for - as you say - my own particular circumstances); and then not keep up.
If those are truly reputable sites I would need to look for a pair of headphones with Sennheiser quality but weighing less than about 14 oz/400g.
As you imply, weight and comfort are (almost?) important as sound quality - especially when you’re older!
Your (wise, if I may say) advice on ‘taming’ EQ parameters taken well to heart, Giles. Appreciated!
Note that when flipping back and forth to test, an OPRA preset in MUSE is likely to also include a headroom adjustment. The end result of that is that the perceived volume will be different between the OPRA setting, and without any MUSE processing, making comparisons difficult.
To avoid that, I created a MUSE preset with just a headroom adjustment (−6.3dB in my case), and no other processing, matching the headroom adjustment used by my OPRA headphone preset. I can now switch between them, effectively comparing OPRA vs no-OPRA, at the same volume.
Thanks, Calum!
For what it’s worth !!
My most recent choices have been Planar Dynamics
I had an old pair of HD800 (not s) and I bought 2 more at once 3 yrs ago Focal Clear Mg and HiFiMan Arya stealth. You can’t beat Sennheiser quality my HD800 are 13 yrs old with almost daily use !!
Of the 2 the Arya got the vote they are quite bright but we listen similar music and they fit well with keyboard and chamber and classical in general. Add to that HiFiMan’s pricing policy the Arya Unveiled introduction has dropped the price of the Stealth to silly money for what it is (I see $600 on Headphones.com)
Of the three usage was Focal < Hd800 < Arya .
To be honest I was quite disappointed with the Focal Clears , they are beautifully made but the sound signature is very neutral almost to the point of dull. I have a “matching” Naim Uniti Atom HE so I expected better. So I would audition them first. It’s probably just the contrast to the brightness of the Arya’s.. The HD800 sit in the middle a bit less bright but what a sound stage
My most recent splurge was the HE1000SE again priced dropped (to $1700) on the intro of HE1000 unveiled
My end game has now become the Meze Audio Elite BUT VVVV expensive unless you are a 100% Head Fi. At the moment I am only using the Elites and they are wonderful but for $4000 they should be
Summary … Try the Arya Stealth , bang for buck rating but an excellent headphone if you only want one pair
Extremely helpful, Mike!
As usual, thanks very much
For anyone comparing bright headphones for long classical sessions, I find it useful to treat comfort and level-matching as part of the audition: take short breaks, keep listening levels modest, and note fatigue rather than chasing a particular signature. As an optional, non-clinical reference, KYMA369 has a page on headphones and listening tools. I’m sharing it as a practical listening resource, not as a treatment claim.
Mike,
Have now had chance to look around a bit at these headphones.
Is the attribute that makes them such a bargain that they used to retail for three times more than they do now?
If so, I suppose I could justify them as a second pair - assuming that I’d also find them sonically as good as you’ve found them to be.
They’re slightly heavier (14.2 to 14oz than my HD 800 S’s), though, aren’t they?
I suspect that - given the classic reliability and quality of the latter, I’d really want to emphasize lightness and comfort if I do go for a secondary.
Am also toying with the idea of getting the FiiO K17 R2R to replace my Dragonfly Cobalt .
Simply HiFi Man introduce a new version of an existing model. In this case the Unvieled BUT they keep manufacturing the older version (or sell off what stock they have) . They have price brackets say $1500 for Arya so the new one becomes $1500 and the superseded one drops to a lower price often half price
Each iteration gives an incremental improvement but often a small improvement. so by going back a model you get last years performance at this years reduced price.
You are running an HD800s through a Cobalt ?
I would change that first I have a Dragonfly RED but it struggles to drive my HD800. Lower impedance aren’t bad but it simply doesn’t have the power to drive the HD800., I have 3 headphone amps Naim Uniti Atom HE, Sennheiser HDV820 and my very old M-DAC. All 3drive the HD800 easily but they are 2-3000 mW/channel
If all your experience is a Cobalt then improve that first you will see a massive difference especially on a high impedance unit like the HD800s. You may decide that is the change you need and the Arya is icing. The Fiio gets some good reviews worth a try.
In terms of weight the Ayra are very comfy, the leather headband distributes the weigh well . For comfort I would put them on a par with the HD800s
If it wasn’t for upgraditis I would be still very happy with the Arya. But you can’t take it with you 
Mike,
Thanks for that explanation. Makes sense. Like the older child getting the latest model and the younger one(s) having to make do with the ‘cast offs’.
I know 
! Yes; I am…
Have not always paid enough attention to headphones. Time to change that. So, Yes, looking seriously at the FiiO K17 R2R. There was an excellent review of it in September’s Gramophone.
Exactly. Given your and my similar listening backgrounds, you’ll surely remember the way we turned to Quads (and even Leak, Heathkit), Armstrongs, Kefs and the like decades ago. They were enough… keeping up was simpler and more sporadic, wasn’t it.
But things have changed so much. Resisting the temptations sometimes takes as much energy as researching them, doesn’t it! So now I’m convinced that a decent step up is justified. If I do get a second pair of headphones, it’ll be to provide a much, much lighter alternative as an extra, not a substitute, the Stealth is listed at 15+ oz/400g+ as opposed to the 800 S (11.6 oz/330g).
Planar magnetics all tend to be a good bit heavier than traditional dynamic driver headphones … because of the large planar magnets. Many makes opt for an additional flexible head strap to spread the load. Probably essential for those of us with MPB. 
If you like the HD800S then before considering an alternative I agree that you should first look at an amp (or DAC/amp) with a bit of serious power, better capable of delivering the voltage 300ohm Sennheisers really need. When I swapped my HD650s over from a modest Schiit stack to an RME ADI-2 DAC FS I was astonished at the difference in grunt and control. And that’s ‘merely’ single-ended, not balanced.
Thanks, also excellent advice, Giles - and much appreciated. Am doing just as you and Mike suggest.
I’m a little late to the party but here is my $0.02.
A lot of the available headphone EQ curves in ROON are too aggressive, with high Q, high gain boost/cut filters that just don’t sound natural.
Less is more.
Look at the curves and find EQ curves that are the smoothest and simplest.
For example you can’t EQ out natural transducer resonances. You can reduce the signal level at certain frequencies, but the resonance is still there.
From a measurement standpoint everything above 4 kHz is dependent on pinna shape, and the coupler and head model used.
It’s mostly entertainment, look for the smoothest curves and experiment.
Thanks, Thomas! I’ll incorporate your suggestions into your experimentation.
I am not a great fan of EQ
I own 5 great pairs of headphones and have owned many more in the past. Each headphone you buy has a distinctive sound signature .Love it or hate it. If you hate it why did you buy it ?
I can’t explain the logic of why I have 5 other than pure “Want it, can afford it, why not”.
The bit I can’t fathom is applying EQ to these 5 to say match the Harman Curve (or whatever quirks you want to tame) and hence overwriting the natural sound signature of the headphone that , presumably , you bought it for.
Some Genres of music sound better on some headphones . Noteably classical piano and classical guitar shine on planar dynamics. So I can see a scenario where you sit down to listen and say “harpsichord needs the HE1000SE”, “Diana Kraal needs the Focal Clears” and so on
I asked a while back on the headphone thread how people decide from a wide collection which headphone to use. No one really explained !!
Currently I have taken the opposite approach, I have had my Meze Audio Elite’s for 2 months and have used them 100%. Soon I may put them in their flashy case and have 2 months of a different sound.
EQ sorta ruins that . Applying EQ levels the sound playing field and all you are left with is the comfort variability between the sets. Surely that’s not why we bought so many different sounding headphones just to act as a base for OPRA and make them sound the same.
Consider for example the Sennheiser HDB 630 that are a headphone / app combo designed to apply EQ to make the sound “Whatever you want” the reviewers labour this point . So now the marketeers are touting all the Mobile / BT / Noise Cancelling because sound no longer matters you can twiddle that !!
As an aside I took a brief foray into speakers and bought the KEF LS60, the whole idea of which is to be a chameleon of a speaker on which to load DSP settings. What is the sound signature you bought ? Of course Sub/No Sub, room treatment, placement just pile up the variables.
Eventually it raised the question of how I would split my time between an excellent speaker (they are BTW) and my headphone collection. I couldn’t come up with an answer so I returned them while I could. I see a 15% discount offer this weekend ITCH ITCH .
Good Sunday morning philosophical thought, time for more coffee (yesterday was a public holiday so it feels like Sunday 
)