Post-update Airplay devices delay in Roon Playback (ref#TQRORR)

Support
1

What best describes your playback issue?

· Music doesn't start when I press "Play"

What type of Zone is affected by this problem?

· *Network Zones* are affected.

Is the affected network Zone connected with Ethernet or WiFi?

· WiFi

Does the issue affect all file formats?

· The issue affects *multiple/all* file formats.

Does the issue happen with local library music, streaming service music, or both?

· *Both streaming and local* *library* music are affected.

Do you encounter any playback errors with the "System Output" Zone?

· The System Output has *no problem*, it's only my other Zone.

How is the affected Zone connected to your RoonServer machine?

· Network - WiFi

Which network audio protocol is the Zone using with Roon?

· Airplay

Since this is an Airplay Zone, have you tried toggling Airplay Compatibility Mode for this Zone in the Device Setup window?

· There is no change in behavior.

Does the device show up at all in Roon Settings -> Audio?

· Yes, it shows up there, but it isn't Enabled

Does the "Enable" button unlock the Zone?

· I pressed Enable, but the Zone remains disabled

Does the device play audio from another source when using the same connection?

· The device has no problems with another audio source

Have you checked that Roon is whitelisted in any firewalls?

· I've checked the firewall and the issue remains

If the device has multiple output options, do the other options work as expected?

· Multiple output types are affected

Is the device using the latest firmware as per the manufacturer?

· Firmware is up-to-date but the issue remains

Do you have an approximate timestamp of when the issue last occurred?

· 5/16 or 5/17

What are the make and model of the affected audio device(s) and the connection type?

· Airport Express 2 via WiFi 6 at 400-700Mb/ps down and 40Mb/ps up

Describe the issue

Aloha from Maui.

My Roon software was updated last weekend (when prompted by Roon to do so). And all of a sudden, after the update, my Airplay devices are not happy.

I have several Airplay devices - and one link to a Lumin U1. They do not get used at the same time. The Lumin feed is fine.

But all of the Airport / Airplay devices are acting up. I have rebooted every device in the house, twice.

The Airplay devices work fine (individually or as a group) if used with Apple Music. All works as it always has. Press play and immediate action!

With Roon (running on a SGC i9 dedicated Roon server), groups or individual feeds don't work properly. When pressing play, for example, on the living room Airplay feed, I see the pathway is as it should be, but nothing plays. Then, after several minutes, it may start playing (with individual or group setup). Very random.

I have tried the advanced settings to play with the compatibility settings, but saw no change.

I'm wondering if there is something else for me to try, or has this last software update created this glitch?

The pathway looks fine, but the music does not play...... until maybe after a few minutes it may choose to play. Handshake issues of some sort?

Any help much appreciated.

Robert
-------
Robert Masters

Describe your network setup

Roon dedicated server connected via Ethernet. 4 Asus XT-8 for excellent coverage through the house... 500Mb down / 40Mb up at the weakest locations. Airport Express devices in place that have worked fine until the last update. Apple Music plays fast and fine... no delays.

2

Hello @Robert_Masters,

Thank you for reaching Roon support.

I think the next step here is to enable some diagnostics on your account so our technical staff can get some more insight into what’s going on here.

However, before I enable this feature, I’d like to ask for your help ensuring we gather the right information.

First, can you please reproduce the issue once more and note the time at which the error occurs. Then respond here with that time, and I’ll make sure we review the diagnostics related to that timestamp.

3

Hi Vadim,

Thank you for your help.

I have tried twice today, the first time at 12:10 HST. On both occasions, it took 2 min 17 sec to respond to a play command. I let it play on the second try and it played a few songs… and stopped. This was also the case yesterday with some songs playing - and then the feed stops.

The system has been flawless for several years, ever since using an i9 Small Green Computer Roon server (with no other software installed)… until the last software update. Not sure if there is a correlation, but mentioning it just in case.

With Apple Music, there is less than a 2 second delay from pressing play to hearing music… and no issues with playing non-stop and with no stoppages.

Let me know what you’d like me to test next. Thanks.

5

Greetings again. This morning I just download Qobuz’s newest software. This allows me to stream either to the Lumin U1-X or to multiple Airplay devices. Everything is working perfectly. No delays, no lags, no skips, no play stoppage. Just sharing for an additional point of reference. Thank you.

6

Hi @Robert_Masters,

Thanks for the timestamps!

Are your airplay devices connected to a different extender than your Roon Server? It could very likely be the case that one of your extenders is blocking DHCP from your Airplay server. As a next step, I’d reboot any devices in your network chain in between your airplay endpoints and your primary router, and see if your issues persist. Thank you! :raised_hands:

7

Hi,

As said, nothing has been changed apart from the Roon update. Everything has worked fine for years. The various AirPlay devices are linked to an ASUS XT-8 Mesh network - with no restrictions or DHCP blocking having been altered in years. One of the AirPlay devices is on the same router as the Roon server. Others are linked to other Asus XT-8s. Everything has been rebooted, three times. I have tried using just one AirPlay device at a time to see if that helped. No luck. I am have been 3 hours into enjoying multi-room playback with the new Qobuz app on three AirPlay devices. No problem. Switched to Roon at noon my time. Roon still has a two minute delay before a song plays after pressing play, also stopping on Roon after just 1/2 way into the first song. Now I don’t get to hear the rest of Frank Zappa singing about huskies, unless I press play again and wait for two more minutes. All path lights glowing green high quality while I wait.

I guess my question is, why is Qobuz Connect and Apple Music working fine with multiple AirPlay devices - and that your software, that was also working fine until the last Roon update last week, does not work properly? Has Roon done something with AirPlay playback that is different to how it was on the previous release? Thanks.

8

Hi @Robert_Masters,

Thank you for your report. The last Roon update contained no significant changes to Roon’s device discovery or pairing via Airplay.

Summarizing the symptoms you’ve reported above and comparing to available logging, it looks like Roon receives a pairing failure with the Airport Express endpoints, and separately encounters timeouts when attempting to pair to devices behind the access points.

More broadly, we see an Airport server on this network relying on a generic loopback address (169.254...), usually indicated that DHCP has failed to assign an IP address as expected to that endpoint.

There is ongoing work to reduce friction with Airplay2 and Airplay1 compatibility. Certain devices, including Airport Express, do not respond well to Roon’s current Airplay pairing implementation. We have a ticket in the pipeline to address this. However, we can likely restore playback to at least a few of these endpoints with a few suggestions in the meantime.

First off, on the Roon side, ensure that you have toggled on Airplay compatibility mode in the Device Setup page for all your Airplay Zones.

From there, outside of Roon, add these devices to the Apple Home app using a Mac or iOS device on your network. This will delegate certain pairing and device announcement responsibilities with Airplay to Apple’s network stack and may help prevent some of the failures you’re encountering.

Lastly, what piece of network equipment is responsible for DHCP in this setup? If you haven’t already tried, try toggling the access points to AP mode in the Asus mesh nodes so the main router is assigning every address.

We’ll watch for your response and thank you for your patience.

9

Hi, so it sounds like a small change in Roon’s latest update has probably made this glitch happen, since it was never an issue before the Roon update. Also, your mention that Roon is working to address current AirPlay pairing implementation also leans towards my original theory.

With my network, on Asus and on Airport Utility, the Airport IP addresses are seen as 192. addresses. Only in the Roon control panel are the devices showing as 169. devices. I have not needed to change anything previously, so to start making changes on a system that is working (apart from Roon) is not very desirable. Plus, I wouldn’t know what to do anyway, since the IP addresses look fine in the Asus and Apple control panels.

I have set all of the Airplay devices to compatible. No changes.

Re: Apple Home, I believe that either an Apple TV or Homepod is required. If Roon would like to send me one for free, I’ll be happy to test your theory out. In the meantime, I do not own these devices and have not needed them to use multi-room playback with Apple Music or Qobuz Connect… or Roon.

Regarding which kit is responsible for DHCP… I have a standard home MESH setup, so wouldn’t it be the main router doing that chore? Yet again, I’ve never had to play with this with Apple, Qobuz, Roon etc, so I don’t play with this stuff unless I have to, which is never.

AP Modes on remote XT-8s are on Auto, the units have been rebooted again.

So perhaps, rather than me wasting more hours trying to fix something (my system) that isn’t broken, perhaps I should wait until your team comes up with a solution to Roon working with AirPlay devices. just like it used to last week - and the week before that?

You mention restoring end points. Bear in mind, that the end points get found… after over two minutes of Roon standing idle with all routing lights glowing green. It’s not like anything is lost and the system cannot find it, or else the pathway lights would not all glow green, no? It’s maybe a pairing implementation, as you say - and not an inability to actually discover the devices?

So what next?

Many thanks for your help.

10

I encountered the exact same issue with my two AirPort devices! After adding them to the Apple Home app (as suggested by Roon Support), two new devices appeared in the Roon config audio section. I disabled the old ones and enabled the new ones. That did the trick for me — seems to be a working solution so far!

12

Hi @Robert_Masters,

Thank you for such a clear and thorough update.

Roon’s Airplay stack can certainly read the wrong IP, but it can’t assign an IP address to this endpoint - it’s ingesting what the Airport Express is actively advertising as an IP address over mDNS/Bonjour. If you see a separate IP address listed in the Airport Utility and in your router settings administration page, then there are two possibilities:

  1. The Airport Express advertised the local link previously and RoonServer erroneously cached that address. This would be solved by either a) deleting the Airplay Zone and recreating it or b) restarting both RoonServer and the Airport Zones. From your responses, you’ve already tried this step.

  2. The second possibility is that the Airport Express has two network interfaces exposed, only one of which is engaging with the DHCP server.

Airport Express offer several network modes (WiFi, ethernet, Bridge mode). Which mode is this unit set to currently?

Apple Home requires a HomePod or Apple TV to set up automation, but device control (which includes centralized Apple mDNS/Bonjour network discovery) is something you can do with just an iOS or macOS device. I recommend giving it a try if you haven’t already.

13

Hi Connor,

Thanks for your reply.

The Airports Expresses are set to “Join a Network”.

I deleted and added the devices. No change. Rebooted. No change.

I tried using the Airport 2 devices with HomeKit. Airport 1 devices don’t show up as an option. Anyhow, nothing changed. Roon still does not see the devices as 192.

When relaunching Roon, it did an update, so sadly two goalposts shifted at the same time. When trying Airplay, things went from bad to worse. The play window sometimes showed the song was playing, but no sound output. I then deleted the devices from Homekit and tried again. Now, it just sits for a couple of minutes with the “play” icon showing that a song is playing, but no action in the scroll window showing the time counting up. Then it stops trying to play and instead of the pause button, the play button is then visible again. No sound. No action. In the meantime, Qobuz Connect and Apple Music play fine via Airplay 1 and 2.

Not sure what to try next.

14

Hey @Robert_Masters,

Thanks for the update!

From a fresh Roon Server diagnostic report, we saw similar patterns to what @connor mentioned above - Roon is trying to connect to 169.254.199.213, which is a link-local IP address.

These IPs (169.254.x.x) are self-assigned by devices when they can’t get an IP from your router via DHCP. Here’s an example:

[3091] Warn: [airplay/rtsp] SocketException while connecting to RTSP server: Connection timed out [::ffff:169.254.199.213]:7000

Since link-local addresses are not routable across the network, Roon can’t connect to it, resulting in the timeout and AirPlay failure.

Do you have the opportunity to test out temporarily hardwiring one of the devices, as well as your Roon Server machine, directly to your primary router?

Power cycle the Bedroom Music device to force it to reacquire a valid IP via DHCP as well, if you haven’t yet.

Thanks for your patience and cooperation so far!

15

Hi Benjamin,

Thanks for your reply.

Our SGC i9 Roon server is hardwired to one of our remote Asus routers. The Asus base station and modem is two rooms away, so it’s not realistic for me to run a 75’ ethernet cable to do the test of which you speak, since I don’t own one.

I have power cycled everything. Modem, routers, Airport devices. Everything from Apple Music and Qobuz Connect works (as usual) in multi-room mode just fine.

Everything I look at, including the main admin menu on my Asus router, shows the Airport devices as 192 devices. It is only Roon that has 169 addresses associated with the Airports.

Yet again, everything worked FOR YEARS prior to the Roon update recently. Nothing has changed at my end. Every other system here works. Roon is not working as a multi-room solution on our system.

Multi-room playback is the only reason I pay for the Roon service. I have invested almost $5K into dedicated Roon hardware, cables, a linear power supply etc… And at present, all of this hardware running Roon is being bested by popular apps running on any IoS device or Mac computer. Sad.

Also, going off-topic, I hate to say it, (especially with my huge investment into hardware for a high-end Roon system) but Qobuz Connect is sounding better via AirPlay than Roon does (when it worked). Their implementation with AirPlay is resulting in a more open sounding, more dynamic, and more pleasing tone than through Roon/AirPlay. This A/B test is being done on B+W 801 speakers, which tend to be rather revealing in these types of details. This is curious… but a whole different topic, so I’ll move on and remain focused on just getting Roon to work properly on our system.

What is the latest with the update that Connor mentioned seven days ago? Hopefully you can go back to a method with AirPlay which worked fine and resolve this issue from your end - instead of me trying to fix something which every other multi-room playback system doesn’t see as being broken.

If a software fix isn’t in the works, then I guess alternatives for me are to change out all of my AirPlay devices - not desirable unless Roon is offering a VERY special deal to Airport users for us to change our hardware. Or just dump Roon, use Qobuz Connect and/or the Lumin app in conjunction with our Lumin U1-X for our local music files - and sell a bunch of expensive Roon related hardware? The longer this issue continues, the more I am leaning in a certain direction.

Anyhow, let me know what to try next, or let me know what Roon is doing to fix something which used to work just fine on our system.

Thanks again for your help.

16

Just wanted to chime in and say I’m experiencing the same issue on my setup. All three of my AirPort Express stopped working with Roon after the latest updates. They still work perfectly when streaming AirPlay directly from any Apple device.

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17

Following up: I thought I would try again and see how things were working on Sunday. I selected three Airport devices and used my iMac as the controller. The server is still the SGC i9. To my amazement, all green lights lit up AND the counter showed that the streams were playing.

I checked the feed in the office and in the bedroom and those were playing fine. The DAC in the living room used for multi-room playback, however, was not receiving a signal from the Airport Express via a high quality optical cable. The green lights on the Roon menu were indicating that the feed was solid.

I was then concerned that perhaps either my optical cable or the DAC itself was failing. I power-cycled the DAC, checked the optical cable, rebooted the Airport Express associated with that part of the system. Optimized the network via the ASUS control panel. And tried everything again.

The results were the same. Two rooms were playing fine, but the living room was not receiving a signal at the Airport Express, therefore there was nothing feeding into the DAC.

Now concerned that I may be having even more problems than before, I then turned to Qobuz Connect and Apple Music to see if indeed there was a problem with any of my hardware. And of course, everything plays just fine.

So, it was a different problem today, one that had me really concerned that I had had some hardware issues to deal with, only to find that it is Roon still acting up, albeit in a slightly different way than during previous attempts to get Roon to work. Anyhow, I have turned back to Apple Music and Qobuz Connect to simply enjoy some uninterrupted music in throughout the whole house without frustration or hassles.

Is there any news regarding an update to address the inconsistent and intermittent issues with the latest versions of run with various Apple AirPlay devices?

Thanks again for your help.

18

Hello @Robert_Masters ,

Thanks for the update.

Just to confirm here, the same issue happens if you try to play to the zone when it is not in a group and standalone? The development ticket regarding Airplay playback is still in progress.

19

Hi Noris. When I did the test on Sunday, I also tried the living room Airport on its own. The problem reverted to the original problem… green light shows a correct signal path, but the playhead indicator sticks at 0:00 and music does not play. I have now shut down my Roon server until a solution is found by Roon. Perhaps you guys can give me a heads up when something happens and I’ll try again. Many thanks.

20

Hi. I am experiencing the same issue with the latest Roon update. I have 4 airport express endpoints that no longer work. My RoPieee nodes all work as well as my Cambridge CXN V2. I would love a solution, so I am happy to answer any troubleshooting questions.

Thanks,
Seth

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