Project Stream Box S2 Ultra


#41

Did you just make this term up?:laughing:

I googled it, but could find no relevant entries.

Please point me to articles that discuss this phenomena, under any name, so that I can more properly evaluate this belief.

Thanks.


(Tim Chapman) #42

Descriptive, obviously. Blimey, relax.


#43

I’m relaxed, but your are presenting this as a valid technical issue when you say -

Data flow disturbance? Ordered data stream? Really, what are those things besides imaginary?

Blimey.


(Eduardo Cabral) #44

Tim. It is not wise to discuss what you have actually heard with people that demand proof of performance over a chat session. They usually forget all this is about the sound and not about the measurements.
John Westlake is a magician, as he is able to squeeze a huge amount of quality out of such a small device that sounds better than products 3 times its price tag. And yes, most of hi-end NAAs today use a RPi for the computer part of the job, its simple and efficient.
The main issue here (the only one actually) is how is done the audio part.
Stream Box S2 Ultra does an incredible job in that field.
Let the others play with their RPi and make believe its all the same, after all non of them has said a word about how things sound, they just care about measurements, so, everybody is happy.
Have a great day, and enjoy your Stream Box.
I do enjoy mine.


(Tim Chapman) #45

Agreed, Eduardo. It’s a shame that people can’t engage in gentle discussion. Guess that’s the problem with forums.


#46

All I asked was that you tell me what either ‘data flow disturbance’ or an ‘ordered data stream’ is. You couldn’t do that, so you resorted to make me a villain.

Never mentioned anything about measurements.


(Rudi) #47

I would like to offer a perspective on how often bit errors are likely in a properly designed (conforming to spec) USB transmission link.
The USB spec calls for a bit error rate (BER) of no more than 1E-12 = one bit error every (US) trillion bits. 1 Trillion is 1 with 12 zeros. This spec is true for a 1USD USB cable as well as for a 100USD “audiophile” USB cable. Any link with a BER of >1E-12 is by definition not conforming to spec, hence defective.
Assuming a CD signal (44.1kHz, 16bit) a bit error would occur every 393 hours. Assuming 24/352.8kHz (which is the best I have), every 2 hours.
Remember, the debate is whether a properly designed USB system can color the sound. The answer is: potentially yes, every 32 to 393 hours, depending on the sample rate.
I guess the next argument might be that in practice BERs are worse than 1E-12. This would simply mean that IT systems would in practice not function properly, as in their design, a BER of no more than 1E-12 is assumed. For example Air traffic control would become a very hit and miss affair, if BERs in practice were significantly higher than the spec.
This does not mean that analog disturbances (ground loops, noise etc.) cannot be transmitted over USB links (as over any cable between equipment) and influence the sound. But that I would also tend to classify as improper system design.
But the cause for anything one can hear are definitely not bit errors (again, given a system that conforms to specs and is not defective).


#48

Thank you for your post based on knowledge, rather than some ill informed, obscure poetics.


(Rudi) #49

Just to avoid misunderstandings. All of this does not mean that the Project Stream Box S2 Ultra cannot have an influence on the sound of a DAC. It supplies a (noisewise) relatively clean USB link. This can be beneficial in (dare I say) improperly designed DACs.
Reviewers have reported that i.e. the RME ADI DACs are relatively insensitive to USB cables, while other DACs respond well to “tuning”. My interpretation of this would simply be that the RME DACs are properly designed and filtered, and others maybe less so.


(Magnus) #50

I just read about a Chord Dave user who got improved sound by using an Allo USBridge (i.e. a $200 ethernet transport to a very expensive DAC). It’s not an easy task to filter away all noise, especially in the amount that comes from a typical computer USB output. Is there actually any DAC that has managed to do that? I seriously doubt it.

And USBAudio does not do bit correction, even though its a packaged protocol (sort of). Not sure why, probably it don’t have time to resend data in case or errors. Having said that, I don’t think errors over a decent USB cable is common, and the sender usually has error correction.


(Eduardo Cabral) #51

@Magnus_Ronnang I had both, the Allo USBridge and the Stream Box S2 Ultra, and there is an important difference in terms of sound. And this is just about sound @Slim_Fishguttz, not about obscure poetics.
Actually I kept the Streambox, even though it costs many times more than the Allo USBridge. In fact, Streambox sounded even better than endpoints costing more than twice the money it costs. Sorry but, for me, the ear rules… :slightly_smiling_face:


(Michael Blair) #52

@Eduardo_Cabral - can I ask what DAC are you using.
I’m currently running the Allo into the Project S2 DAC and am thinking about the Stream Box S2 Ultra. Is the upgrade worth it in your view from a sound quality perspective?
Cheers
blairy


(Eduardo Cabral) #53

@Michael_Blair having listened thoroughly both end-points, I feel the Streambox S2 Ultra is way above the Allo USBridge


#54

DACs?.. hmmmmm…


(Eduardo Cabral) #55

@thyname sorry, my bad… jaja


(Eduardo Cabral) #56

@Michael_Blair sorry for the delayed answer… I use 2 DACs, a Mytek Brooklyn and a Chord 2Qute… as I told you before, both of them expose an important difference in SQ between Allo and Pro-Ject end-points…


(Tim Chapman) #57

And the a significant sound quality difference is evident when using my ProjectAudio Pre Box RS Digital.


#58

(Joseph Kreidler) #59

The S2 Ultra is working great for me between my Mac Mini and my Parasound P6 feeding my Navi’s ARB51. I do get the occasional issue where I have to reboot it to get Roon to see it as an endpoint randomly after it sitting idle for a day but it is a computer afterall so that is to be expected by me still in 2019.


(OuYang, Ming-Kang) #60

Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra now Roon Ready

FYI