Qobuz 192/24 tracks skip after 15-18 seconds in Roon (ref#PFON6X)

Support
27

Hey @Nitin_Patil,

We appreciate your thoroughness in your testing. Unfortunately, we’re still seeing clear network-related errors and dropouts, oftentimes with every track attempted to play. With this, there are consistent poor connection traces that ultimately lead to playback failure, for example:

Warn: [12] FTMSI-B-OE qo/38D114FB: poor connection kbps:5621.0 (min:8073.0)
Warn: [108] FTMSI-B-OE qo/8ED3870F: poor connection kbps:2226.0 (min:3757.0)

This is occurring no matter the endpoint - even when playing from the system output of your Mac:

Warn: [Broker:Transport] [zone System Output] Track Stopped Due to Slow Media

For next steps in troubleshooting, we see that you have another M4 mac in your setup - what happens if you temporarily swap servers, and set up Roon Server on this other machine? Do you see the same dropout errors?

In addition to this, have you performed a fresh install of Roon Server on your Mac Mini? Follow the steps below, perhaps this will help connection:

Let’s try a fresh database and see if your issues persist:

  • Create a Backup of your current database
  • Exit out of Roon + RoonServer (from taskbar area)
  • Navigate to your Roon Database Location
  • Find the folder that says “Roon Server” and “Roon”
  • Rename the “RoonServer” folder to “RoonServer_old” and “Roon” to “Roon_old”
  • Reinstall the Roon App from our Downloads Page to generate a new Roon folder
  • Verify if the issue persists on a fresh database before restoring the backup

Here is the process outlined from a macOS machine:
roonoldmac

Let us know the results. Thank you! :+1:

28

I did a fresh install recently based on your recommendation on a previous issue that was resolved.
I did one in last 10 hours and tested with a fresh database (not restoring from backup) and ran into the same poor connection issue for 192/24 tracks including crashes when scrolling forward.
Kindly provide specific instructions for RoonAppliance install on a newer M4 MacOS device including setting up the login at startup for the RoonServer or RoonAppliance app.

29

Hello @Nitin_Patil ,

Thanks for letting us know that you tried the fresh install. We tried to enable diagnostics for your account but it doesn’t look like log requests are coming through properly for some reason. Can we kindly ask that you use these instructions to send us a manual log set to the below and let us know once uploaded? Thanks!

https://workdrive.zohoexternal.com/collection/8i5239cc05950ac07456889838d9319545a82/external

30

Done

Kindly point me to RoonAppliance installation instructions on a M4 headless MacOS machine.

31

Hey @Nitin_Patil,

First, you’ll need a way to access the M4 remotely - you can go to System Settings > General > Sharing, and enable Screen Sharing or Remote Login (SSH). Or from another Mac - open Finder > Network, locate the Mac, and use Screen Sharing.

From there:

Download Roon for macOS (Apple Silicon):

  • Open Safari and visit Roon - Downloads.
  • Download the Roon Server (macOS - Apple Silicon) version.
  • Move It to Applications Folder: Open Finder > Downloads, drag Roon Server.app to Applications.
  • Launch Roon Server: Open Applications, double-click Roon Server.app.

You’ll also want to set Roon Server to open at login:

  1. Open System Settings > General > Login Items.
  2. Click + and add Roon Server to the startup list.
  3. This ensures Roon Server starts automatically after reboots.

Hope this helps! :+1:

32

Thank you for providing the comprehensive instructions.
I have successfully deployed a new instance of RoonServer on a newly acquired M4 Mac Mini, which possesses double the RAM and storage capacity of the previous M1 Mac Mini.
I have not specifically restored from a previous backup, so I’m missing my playlists at this time.
Although dropouts have reduced, I continue to encounter persistent poor connection warnings and 192/24 tracks still end up skipping.
I’m not experiencing any of these buffering issues in any other scenarios (Apple Music, Qobuz app, BlueOS) on the same machine/network/hardware.
Kindly let me know whether you are able to view the logs for this new instance and guide me accordingly.

33

Hey @Nitin_Patil,

We’re not able to enable diagnostics on our end - our servers are having a difficult time connecting to your Mac Mini, could you please use the directions found here and send over a set of logs to our File Uploader?

34

Done,
You now should have the zip archive from the old box as well as the current running instance.

35

Hi @Nitin_Patil,

We’re seeing similar errors in logs - sometimes with the network connection falling far below the minimum threshold needed for 192 playback, for example:

Warn: [39] FTMSI-B-OE qo/3ED5DBA5: poor connection kbps:1185.0 (min:7109.0)

Roon’s playback architecture differs from services like Apple Music, Qobuz, or BluOS, which can make it more sensitive to network conditions, especially for high-resolution playback. Here’s why more bandwidth (and stability) is needed for Roon:

Bit-Perfect, Uncompressed Streaming

  • Roon streams audio in its native format without compression or adaptive bitrate adjustments. Other services (like Apple Music or the Qobuz app) may use buffering or adaptive streaming to reduce bandwidth demands, but Roon requires consistent, high-speed data flow.

Real-Time Processing & DSP Overhead

  • If DSP (such as upsampling or convolution filters) is enabled in Roon, it requires additional processing and can increase network load. Services like Apple Music or Qobuz typically apply processing before streaming, reducing live bandwidth demands.

RAAT vs. Proprietary Streaming Protocols

  • Roon’s RAAT (Roon Advanced Audio Transport) is designed for ultra-low latency, synchronized playback across multiple zones, making it more sensitive to packet loss or delays. BluOS and other apps often use built-in buffering to smooth out network hiccups.

@connor is correct in the above statement.

When you used your system output, how did things perform?

36

I’m consistently monitoring uncompressed bitperfect playback on both Apple Music and Qobuz, none of these services are compressing adaptively while listening to the same 192/24 tracks.
All the DSP is turned off, I rarely ever use it.
I mentioned specifically about the system output in my last post, results didn’t change, still getting poor connection in the logs.

Are you able to get the Debug info through my logs yet for my current instance or did you need me to reload more copies of zipped logs?

37

Hi @Nitin_Patil ,

Thanks for giving that a try. Yes, we would like to look over the new log set, if you can please manually upload them again it would be appreciated, as automatic log requests still don’t seem to be working for your account. Let us know once uploaded, thanks!

38

Done, Uploaded the latest log set.

I’m not getting a number of album art and loading errors in the iPhone roon remote, it’s become unusable. Additionally I’m getting crackling and popping sounds when playing through Roon to the Bluesound Powernode, meanwhile if I play through the DAC connected to MacMini(RoonServer) I get no audio issues.

There are less dropouts for the 192/24 tracks than earlier, but still getting poor connection warnings.

40

Hi @Nitin_Patil,

Thank you again for your patience. What you’re experiencing isn’t normal or expected and we’ll work with you to identify and resolve the underlying issue regardless of the cause.

The most recent logs show requests to the Qobuz API and upstream Roon services are timing out - this prevents tracks from buffering beyond what’s cached and it also disrupts device discovery. This RoonServer similarly receives our log requests, acknowledges the requests, but then fails to upload the several-MB log files before timeout.

It’s rare for automatic diagnostic requests to fail without processing limitations, network congestion, or stateful security imposing a restriction on RoonServer. It’s doubtful there’s a processing issue here. But from what we see in RoonServer logs, Roon simply can’t establish a reliable connection through the network pathway available.

You mentioned that toggling local network access had an effect here, but device discovery promptly failed again. We can see RAATServer’s connection to coreaudio through the loopback ethernet interface severing occasionally, as well. Double-check that this setting is still toggled on. mDNS traffic is possibly failing to forward across this network - verify again that multicast forwarding is enabled in this Orbi setup.

You’ve mentioned that you can distribute large audio files to a wired endpoint from another program without issue. Apple Music and the native Qobuz app request data from different servers and don’t rely on the same volume of metadata enrichment cloud requests for background functioning. We need to investigate why RoonServer is not provided adequate bandwidth or throughput under specific circumstances.

If there are any network elements you haven’t listed already, please describe them briefly - access points, Orbi mesh nodes, or managed switches.

Can you share the Signal Path in Roon for the audio chain above that displays audible symptoms (crackling/popping)?

Roon’s protocol will stop the audio stream if packet loss or transcoding errors occurs to an extent that it would be audible. If there’s no DSP applied in MUSE, we’ll need to verify the hardware components in the chain.

Does this occur at all sample rates on the PowerNode? Can you reproduce the popping/crackling if you play through Airplay to the same unit?

We’ll watch for your response.

41

MacOS Network access is toggled ON
Network Setup:
VerizonFIOS 1Gbps FTTH
G3100 Router >LAN>Orbi Main Router(AP Mode)>LAN>MacMini+Bluesound Powernode
Tcpdump shows multicast forwarding or IGMP is enabled (through G3100 Router)

Signal Path when crackling and popping occurs:
Prevalent for all sampling rates

IMG_2264
IMG_22641320×2408 198 KB

No issues when AirPlaying to the same audio zone.

42

Hi @Nitin_Patil,

Thanks for the update.

Are you able to test out setting up a direct connection from the powernode to your G3100?

There seems to be some DSP occurring after Roon passes the audio signal over to the powernode - do your issues still occur if you temporarily disable any DSP?

43

The Bluesound only has a crossover for the sub running on it and no other DSP, I’ve tested with that disabled to no avail. The cracks and pops went away after a few reboots and possibly updates for now.
It’ll be hard for me to get the direct LAN connection from the G3100 router to the Bluesound since this is the only cable that runs 10 ft from a floor below where the G3100 sits to the Orbi main router. If I use that cable, I’ll be forced to use wifi on the Mac mini which isn’t ideal. I’ll either need an additional long cable or hardware to accommodate this test.
Meanwhile, have you figured out why you’re unable to get diagnostic logs from my server?

44

Hi @Nitin_Patil,

Glad to hear it!

It looks like we’ve been able to successfully request a diagnostic report from your Roon Server running on your Mac Mini since you’ve updated. :+1:

45

Kindly check the logs again, I did manage to directly connect the Bluesound Powernode to the G3100 router with a 14ft cat8 cable, meanwhile the mac mini stays connected to the Orbi main router.
Also got the latest Roon server update up and running. Cracks and pops came back again. I’m still seeing poor connection messages in the logs on my end.

46

Hi @Nitin_Patil,

We’re still seeing an overall lack of sufficient network bandwidth to maintain the playback your attempting:

Warn: [73] FTMSI-B-OE qo/E98769EC: poor connection kbps:4970.0 (min:7535.0)

The required bandwidth for smooth playback is 7,535 kbps, but the connection is only providing 4,970 kbps, which suggests network congestion or instability.

In addition to this, multiple files show accessTimeout:True, meaning that Roon’s file transfer mechanism is timing out while trying to fetch audio data.

We’re also seeing:

  • RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good (multiple times)
  • status":"Dropout" (multiple times for Bluesound POWERNODE 2i)

This tells us the prebuffering process is stalling, meaning Roon cannot keep the buffer filled with audio data, likely due to network lag. Unfortunately, we’ve been seeing this pattern throughout your issue. At this stage, it might be worth reaching out to your internet provider to check if there are ways to improve your network performance. You could also try lowering the streaming quality during playback to see if that helps create a smoother listening experience.

47

My network performance is more adequate than any of my equipment can handle, I have nothing to show them there’s a lag, here’s a screenshot from the machine hosting RoonServer:

Image 4-1-25 at 7.39 PM
Image 4-1-25 at 7.39 PM2276×2188 208 KB

This is corroborated by the fact that both Qobuz app and Apple Music app pull the exact same 192/24 tracks without a hitch consistently.

If Roon support is at this juncture with my subscription wherein they want me to take it upto my network provider for prebuffering issues with RoonServer, I’m at a loss of words.
So far, last year and this year I’ve patiently worked with you and your team diligently troubleshooting on various fronts including but not limited to:

  • Server Rebooting
  • Corrupt Database rebuilding
  • Uninstalling and Reinstalling RoonServer multiple times
  • Moving to newer hardware with twice the CPU RAM and disk space (M1 to M4 Mac mini)
  • DNS reconfiguration
  • Rewiring LAN to audio equipment
  • Reconfiguring audio components
    Important to note that these issues were not present the first year of my subscription.

“ You could also try lowering the streaming quality during playback to see if that helps create a smoother listening experience” - I apologize but I don’t spend this much on my audio equipment, network providers, subscriptions and such to lower the quality of my streams and have a substandard listening experience.

Kindly provide an export/backup of all my playlists in order for me to plan on transitioning to an equivalent platform. Also let me know how I can reach managerial staff at Roon/Harman to get reimbursed for my subscription, that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your efforts.