I have Roon Core running on a dedicated Mac Mini M2 without issues. I chose to have a dedicated computer for this so that it is always running and connected to the internet whenever I might want to use Roon ARC remotely. I have subscriptions to Tidal and Qobuz. When Roon starts, it successfully logs into both. However, after about 12 hrs of non-use, both log out automatically. If I attempt to connect using ARC I lose access to most of my catalog which is on Tidal and Qobuz because of this. Unlike Roon, ARC does not provide notification of this logout with an option to “retry” logging back in. And there appears to be no way to log Roon ARC into Qobuz or Tidal from ARC. Therefore I can not access music from either until I can get home and click “Retry” in Roon itself. This could be weeks during which ARC is unnecessarily essentially useless to me.
Is there some way to do this that I have not discovered ? Is Roon Labs working on this ?
While ability to re-login from ARC would be nice, the real problem here is that it should not do that at all. The last time I logged into Qobuz was, I think, when I set up Roon more than a year ago. Tidal is a little more flakey but that happened once or twice
That is very interesting. I can’t imagine why both Qobuz and Tidal log themselves out every single night in my case if yours doesn’t.
So I guess my question to Roon Labs has two parts: 1) why do they log out (I know from other software that my internet connection is fine all night when this happens), and 2) how do I log back in. Clearly, the ability to log in is essential anyway because it’s always just a matter of time before something goes wrong with network connections.
We’ve examined diagnostics repeatedly from the last several weeks of Roon Core performance. There’s strong evidence that enterprise-grade security is responsible for the network failures you’ve been experiencing.
Upstream filtering is preventing your account authorizations from reaching Roon’s servers, preventing your credentials from being verified. Since these authorizations pass through the Core even when using ARC, it’s most likely the issue is on the network to which you’ve connected your Core.
A few questions ought to illuminate the blockage, although Roon’s ability to function on a network with enterprise-grade security will be severely limited.
First off, is your Core on your home network, or is it connected to a corporate-level internet service provider network (ie. in a company office, on a university campus, etc.)?
If this Core is on your home network, do you have any active antivirus or firewall software that you have not already temporarily paused or for which you’ve created security exceptions?
Do you have a business-tier internet account with your home provider, if your Core is at home? If so, it might be worth inquiring if there’s any up- or downstream filtering in place on this account tier.
It’s not clear why you’re taking issue with the above response when everything in your diagnostics indicates that you’re either:
you not presenting a clear and honest picture of your network setup
or
you have created a network setup including security features that are well-documented to interfere with both streaming service login and minute-by-minute functions in Roon.
Furthermore, the tactic you’ve employed of bypassing the #support channels to attempt to leverage previous contact with other departments at Roon is not going to resolve this issue in a timely manner or win favors from the team.
If you could extend the candor with which you discuss your impressions of our product and service to include the technical details of your setup, we’d be in a strong position to assist you. But as things stand, we’ve dedicated an enormous amount of time and energy to resolving what appears to be an ever-shifting set of variables in your setup.
Multiple team members have reviewed your diagnostics and come to the same conclusion: you are using a service provider, VPN, or corporate security apparatus that is preventing account authorizations from reaching our partner streaming services’ servers. We’re very clear in our documentation that Roon - and especially ARC - cannot function as designed in that networking environment.
You have to let us help you if you’re going to resolve this situation. However, please refrain from escalating your tone further in these forums at risk of violating the Community Guidelines.
Why am I taking issue ? I’ll answer that by responding to your email one item at a time ? My responses are below in bold and underlined between “ “ ’s. Let’s see if you are honest enough to leave it up so customers can see my response to what you have said.
On Mar 30, 2023, at 2:24 PM, Connor Schake via Roon Labs Community community@roonlabs.com wrote:
connor Connor Schake Roon Staff: Technical Support
It’s not clear why you’re taking issue with the above response when everything in your diagnostics indicates that you’re either:
you not presenting a clear [not clear ? What isn’t clear ? I’m running Roon Core on an M2 based Mac mini through an ordinary household network/cable internet connection] and honest [not honest ? Are you calling me a liar Connor ? If so, the next communication I hear from Roon Labs better be an apology from your supervisor. And lying about what ? And for what possible reason ?]. picture of your network setup
or
you have created a network setup including security features [NO! That is absolutely incorrect. There are NO security features. Absolutely zero. I abandon my original plan to host Roon Core on my Mac Studio because it is used for everything else in my household (like our finances) and so is connected to my network via NordVPN which runs on it (as opposed to running on my router). Since Roon ARC isn’t capable of working with VPN, I had to purchase a separate dedicated computer for the sole purpose of running Roon Core so that Roon ARC would work remotely. That computer has absolutely nothing on it but Roon Core and Minim Server to interface with dCS’ Mosaic. There is no VPN, no antivirus software, nothing. Absolutely nothing else. I don’t even have a “Finder" window open when it is running.]. that are well-documented to interfere with both streaming service login and minute-by-minute functions in Roon [as I said, I am well aware - I spent ~$2000 on a dedicated computer to get around that limitation].
Furthermore, the tactic[tactic ? What do you mean by my “tactic” ? Rebeka is the only person at Roon Labs I want to communicate with. If it werent for her, I would never have chosen Roon let alone buy a lifetime subscription for it. She doesn’t provide responses like this one.]you’ve employed of bypassing the #support channels [I’m bypassing support channels ? You are *responding* to a post I made to Roon’s “support channel” Connor ?] to attempt to leverage previous contact with other departments at Roon is not going to resolve this issue in a timely manner or win favors from the team. [What ? “leverage previous contact” ? What leverage ? “Leverage” means to take advantage of something to obtain something else. What are you asserting I’m trying to obtain ? Technical Support ? My friend Rebeka has been perfectly clear from the beginning she does not provide technical support. I never asked her for technical support. In fact I told her that since, once again, Roon Labs is incapable of providing meaningful technical support, I will simply have to wait until the problem eventually gets addressed in the course of time. What “leverage” are you talking about Connor ? Regarding “win favors from the team”, win what favors Connor ? I don’t expect any “favors” from “the team” Connor, I don’t even expect competent discourse. I “expect” responses like this one. And what makes you think I have some obligation to “win favors” from the Roon Labs team anyway ? I’m Roon’s paying customer Connor. Roon Labs gets the “favor” here from me by my paying them money (TWICE for this year actually - how’s THAT for a favor ?). What an incredibly arrogant thing to suggest.]
If you could extend the candor [“candor” ? Are you accusing me of lying again Connor ? Who do you think you are accusing a customer of lying ? How DARE you ! I’d like to see you accuse me of lying to my face with your supervisor standing next to you Connor.] with which you discuss your impressions of our product and service to include the technical details of your setup [as I said, there ARE no technical details beyond what I provided - its Roon Core on a dedicated M2 based Mac mini with no VPN, no antivirus, connected to an ordinary household router and COX’s ordinary home cable internet service. That’s it ], we’d be in a strong position [since the result of Roon Lab’s “support” so far has been to conclude that I am operating within a “corperate security apparatus” or using VPN that is “preventing account authorizations from reaching our partner streaming services” when I am actually running a simple home system and have had absolutely zero problems reaching Roon’s servers - ever - in the first place, obviously Roon Labs “support" is not in a “strong position” to do anything] to assist you. But as things stand, we’ve dedicated an enormous amount of time and energy to resolving what appears to be an ever-shifting set of variables in your setup [“ever shifting set of variables” ? Again, seriously ? Which variable is “ever shifting" Connor ? Name one “ever shifting variable" that has shifted since I wrote that post - one single “variable" Connor ?? Same computer, same internet connection, no VPN, no “corporate security apparatus”, no malware s/w - absolutely nothing has “shifted” - nothing].
Multiple team members have reviewed your diagnostics and come to the same conclusion: you are using a service provider [EVERYBODY is using a “service provider” Connor; mine is Cox], VPN [no, I am not], or corporate security apparatus [what “corporate security apparatus"? I’ve been retired for over seven years and the subject Mac mini is sitting on a desk in my home office. The fact that “multiple team members” spending an “enormous amount of time and energy” have gotten every single detail of this extremely simple thing so utterly wrong makes my point exactly] that is preventing account authorizations from reaching [no, it is NOT. My Mac mini connects to Roon’s servers perfectly EVERY - SINGLE - TIME. If there is a problem from there, it’s on Roon’s systems.]. our partner streaming services’ servers. We’re very clear in our documentation that Roon - and especially ARC - cannot function as designed in that networking environment [that "networking environment” is my home Mac mini connected to an ASUS RT-AX89X router/switch to COX ordinary home internet service with NO VPN, NO malware software and NO “corporate security apparatus”].
You have to let us help you if you’re going to resolve this situation [if your help is to conclude that I am a liar using a “corporate security apparatus” and VPN when nothing could be further from the truth, and even now still doesn’t include a single word about the actual main, original point of the post which was, “doesn’t/ shouldn’t ARC have the ability to reinitiate a lost connection to Tidal and/or Qobuz” (which of course will happen from time-to-time for any number of reasons no matter what), then your help is no help]. However, please refrain from escalating your tone [you are calling me a liar and I’m “escalating” my tone Connor ?] further in these forums at risk of violating the Community Guidelines[I’m violating “community guidelines” by typing the word “seriously ?” Connor ? Show me that guideline. Show me anywhere in any Roon forum where I’ve violated any “community guideline”].
My original post was about being DISCONNECTED (which, of course requires that I WAS connected first) and what to do about that. Your response is about there being something wrong with me GETTING connected. Right out of the gate, you’re not even addressing the right question. How can there be a problem with getting DISCONNECTED unless I already successfully GOT connected ? I eventually figured out by myself why I was getting DISconnected and not only did Roon support never provide the slightest help with that, even now it still isn’t even trying to address the question - the DISconnection question. Not to mention, the problem you’ve decided to address isn’t even happening. I GET connected flawlessly every single time. That’s NEVER been a problem since I got the Mac mini and I don’t remember having a problem getting connected even before that.
Ultimately, the only thing that matters is once they’re disconnected from Tidal and/or Qobuz for any reason, users can’t get reconnected unless they’re back in front of their Roon Core server. And that real issue was NEVER addressed - not a single word - ever. Once I realized it wasn’t just me and ARC didn’t have this ability in the first place, that became the only thing that mattered. And has it happened, it was my non-support friend Rebeka who actually did something useful and got that on the developer’s fix list while Roon “support” spun it’s wheels doing absolutely nothing of value and now has actually accused me being a liar.
Let me be clear about this Connor. Your company has utterly messed this “support thing” up and then sent me an insulting, accusatory unsolicited email (mirroring this post) with not a shred of accurate or useful information in it. I don’t expect ANYTHING from a company like that, Absolutely nothing. I originally posted to the forum to get inputs from other users. The response I received from them was useful. I merely added a comment at the end about an input from Roon as an afterthought. I should have known better, I didn’t expect anything useful to come of it and of course nothing did. I don’t want any help from Roon “support” since this is what Roon “support” is like. Do not respond to this unless it is an apology from your supervisor who I want to actually hear you call me a liar. Like I said, let’s see if you are honest enough to leave this response up. Or will you take it down because you’re afraid to let customers see a detailed response to your post.
The Community Guidelines are in place to guide thoughtful, civilized, and informative discussion. It’s the goal of Roon staff and moderators to keep this a welcoming environment for all and provide direct and indirect support to our user base.
It’s not clear from your behavior that you share the desire to keep this space civil. You seem to be under the impression that escalating further will win you special privileges. However, posting here is a privilege sanctioned by respectful behavior.
Your post will remain public on Community as you’ve asked. However, you will not - your account is suspended for 90 days, effective immediately.
