Thanks. I am new to Roon and broadly like it, having taken out a one year subscription to give it a thorough look. I have a large classical library built up over many years in iTunes with a standardised approach to Playlists, and also purchased Audirvana. I have a subscription to Qobuz. So far my tentative conclusion is that Roon is certainly better than iTunes, but Audirvana albeit with much less flexibility does seem to hit two key things, more flexibility with managing sound “filters” (SOX e.g.) and complete integration with Qobuz. I also agree with the other comments about Roon’s metadata management - fiddly and unhelpful, most of the time, with classical. Qobuz itself is a downloading/streaming tool, not a library management tool, and while it has potential but I don’t see it becoming a direct competitor for Audirvana, Roon etc any time soon.
SOOO sad. I used everything from the days of Napster onwards and ripped my CDs in 2004, now have Linn streamer and Naim Streamers. I tried Tidal for 6 months, too US centric and too much rap. Qobuz has a decent classical catalogue and much more world music (ie not US). I will have to delete my Roon trial until qobuz arrives.
Regarding your comments about being "discourteous to the rest of the world,” the last time I checked Qobuz was available in 11 of the world’s 195 or so countries. It is not, for example, available in either of the two countries in which I live—Canada and Brazil (the world’s fifth-largest country by population). Tidal, on the other hand, is available in many countries, including the two I just mentioned. Personally speaking, Qobuz integration will do nothing for me.
No, the question is how many potential Roon customers are in the 185 or so countries in which Qobuz does not exist. I was a Qobuz customer when the service started, FYI. I am no longer because I currently don’t live in their 11 countries. However, I live in two of Tidal’s 52 countries.
How do you pay? Qobuz never used to care about your credit card address. Now it does. I once used Qobuz in Brazil as well, paying with a Canadian credit card. Then I discovered that Tidal Brazil is significantly cheaper (than Qobuz and also than Tidal elsewhere in the world).
I guess places such as India and China would be. That’s almost 3 billion potential customers. Streaming is booming in China, for example. Smart businesses make themselves available to a large customer base. Ask Spotify or Tidal how that works. Or perhaps ask Qobuz why it feels the need to expand (albeit extremely slowly). The obvious point is that the larger your potential customer base, the larger your potential sales.
For that reason, I suspect Tidal will continue to do more for Roon than Qobuz ever will.
India and China?
How many customers do you think Roon have in those countries?
The point was that your comment about ‘185 countries’ was a bit misleading.
Take this site for example, 75%+ of the traffic comes from just 5 countries, all of which offer Qobuz (or are about to). If you expand out to the markets Qobuz is actually in, I’d suggest you pretty much have the Roon base covered.
So, I really don’t understand why India and China not having Qobuz is at all relevant to the actual Roon customer base. I think the customer bases align quite well, which makes sense considering how much of a clamour there is for Qobuz integration.
Just my opinion as a relative newcomer to Roon … based on how Roon is currently designed to be driven by a local database that can contain references to and play tracks from a streaming service the addition of another streaming service that supports Roon’s current model would be huge. It would be ideal if any new streaming service integrated into Roon was widely available and offered broad support for all types of music but in my opinion the reality is that Roon does not have many viable options to partner with.
Searching for streaming services led me to this PCMAG Best Online Streaming Services article from last month which focused on ten online streaming services. Four of the ten offer radio like services which leaves six that could work with Roon. Four of those six are huge ( Amazon, Apple, Google & Spotify ) and likely have no interest in partnering with Roon. That leaves two ( Deezer & Tidal ) of their top choices left. Fortunately Roon has already partnered with Tidal, unfortunately Deezer may already be too big to bother partnering with Roon and Qobuz did not make their list.
My crystal ball is in the shop so I have no idea what the future holds for the current crop of money losing streaming services but I believe that Roon needs streaming partners to expand and prosper. I’m concerned that the services with deep pockets ( Amazon, Apple & Google ) will eventually prevail leaving Roon with few options. About 80% of the albums in my Roon library are from Tidal, if Roon did not offer a Tidal like partner I’m afraid I would have to find another way to listen.
If you think 185 countries are not included in “the rest of the world”, you’re welcome to your parochial view. As for India and China (and the real “rest of the world”) it’s not an issue of how many customers Roon has in those countries, but how many it could have in those countries. Businesses thrive when they expand.
For the sake of argument, let’s say that the U.S. does become the 12th country in the Qobuz roster, which it continually says will happen. Then, let’s suppose that Tidal disappears and Roon has only Qobuz. That leaves an audience of just 12 countries, instead of the previous 52, for those who consider the integration of a streaming service important to their Roon subscriptions.Suddenly Roon’s potential customer base will have shrunk considerably. (By the way, I’m guessing from your use of non-American English grammar and spelling that you’re also in a country where Roon probably doesn’t have a lot of customers.)
It doesn’t particularly matter where the comments in this forum come from. They are from a small group of countries because Roon hasn’t expanded its focus to non-English nations, as far as I know. I suspect they might be considering it, should they want to flourish.
Why is China relevant? Because that’s where 1.5 billion potential customers live. Streaming is thriving in China. Chinese streaming services are coming out with IPOs. Streaming services such as Spotify have purchased stakes in Chinese streaming services. It’s a potential gold mine for those who do it right. I suspect India hasn’t reached that level, but it certainly has 1.4 billion potential customers, many of whom speak English (as do many young people in China).
Business is not always about the “actual customer base”. Good, profitable business is about expanding that customer base. I don’t think Qobuz is going to take Roon very far in that direction, although it may satisfy people like you.
However, it won’t satisfy people like me. I have a lifetime Roon sub, so that probably doesn’t matter. But the fact that a Qobuz subscription won’t be (easily) available to me or to many other Roon customers means the fact that it is coming to the U.S. isn’t important to some of us. We’re allowed that point of view, just as you’re allowed to want Qobuz with your Roon (which as far as I know is not a certainty).
As I noted earlier, I was a Qobuz customer before I was a Tidal customer. I’ve been there, and done that. That was when Qobuz would sell to anybody who gave them a fake address and a credit card from any country. I used it in Brazil and Canada and paid with a Canadian credit card. I didn’t like it all that much, mainly because server issues led to constant buffering. However, I also pay the equivalent of about US$8 monthly for Tidal hifi in Brazil because Tidal pricing varies greatly around the world. That was at the time, and still is, far less than Qobuz. So if Roon does expand beyond its current customer base, overpriced Qobuz isn’t going to be a big draw. Tidal, however, will be.
Personally, I think Deezer would be a better match for an alternative service…
I will go back to the important point. I does not matter if you personally are interested in Qobuz integration, the important thing is that it seems like a clear requirement from customers in general.
Your point about China and India remains irrelevant. Even if Roon has grand expansion plans into those countries, it has an existing customer base eager for Qobuz integration right now. It would take a special kind of stupid for a new company to launch into a China and India based requirement set, for an expansion plan, at the expense of the existing customer base need.
Of course it matters to me. Just as your opinion seems to matter greatly to you. I see no evidence that Qobuz integration “seems like a clear requirement from customers in general.” In fact I am willing to bet that a very small percentage of Roon customers care about this or will purchase Qobuz when it arrives in their country. That small percentage may be vocal here, but do you know what proportion of total Roon customers are craving Qobuz? Of course not.
By the way, I’m guessing that because your English grammar and spelling are non-U.S. that you’re also in a country where there aren’t many Roon customers–but that you probably already have access to Qobuz. I may be wrong, but that would certainly skew your opinion.
Sorry, I don’t understand the logic in these statements. If TIDAL went belly up and Roon didn’t have Qobuz, then the customer base (actual not potential) would be even less. What streaming service would you prefer to take the place of TIDAL?
Judging by current events, I would think China would be the last place Roon would want to be. Considering software piracy, govenrment censorship, tariffs, etc., but that’s not really germane to this thread.
I don’t understand your viewpoint, generally. It seems like your saying that Roon shouldn’t incorporate Qobuz because Qobuz isn’t available in many countries, Canada being one of them.
BTW - I have always felt that MQA decoding was a waste of Roon’s development resources. Resources that could have been spent on Roon’s charter, i.e. finding new ways to discover one’s music. I suspect the actual base that wants or still wants MQA is smaller than those that want Qobuz.