RAVENNA The new benchmark in consumer digital audio systems

not yet :slight_smile:

Heā€™s just really excited about this board! I donā€™t blame himā€¦ it is great ā€“ but letā€™s be realistic about what it is.

I only know about the Ayre QX-5 twenty. Which uses a Taiwanese board to do it, and limited in resolution support. But I havenā€™t discovered any other DACā€™s doing that when looking on the Roon partner list. Can you please share some other DACā€™s that use RAAT boards that spit out I2S direct?

No I donā€™t work for Merging. Iā€™m just a fan of great technology. Actually if anything I should be sad. Because this officially makes our Superstream Streamer that I do sell obsolete. I will be selling our remaining stock at 75% off because of this news.

For example, this board has high rates and multichannel.

Iā€™m not endorsing or using them as an example for any reason other than that their spec sheet is easy to link to. There are others as well, but their websites are not as informative.

If youā€™d like to build a networked DAC and need some help, contact us at contact@roonlabs.com and our partnership manager will be in touch.

The 2 nanosecond sync is far more important than many people may think. Itā€™s not just a matter of moving your head a human hair away to compensate. For example hereā€™s a great video demonstration how much clocks will drift away from each other between endpoints, without the assistance of the IEEE1588v2 that Ravenna uses for 2 nanosecond endpoint to endpoint skew.

You end up with each endpoint beating with a different heart out of sync. Acceptable only in very low end applications.

This is something Iā€™m curious about. Is it going to be something thatā€™s only used in boxes in the price range of Merging gear, or is it going to be something that will have a big impact in making Ravenna available to a much wider market?

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Pretty much all of the Roon Ready DACs that use either the Comverse Digital or Stream Unlimited boards for starters. Some manufacturers are doing custom implementations as well (and not relying on a separate streamer card). In all of these cases the audio signal output to the DAC section is either I2S or some proprietary equivalent.

I donā€™t know of any networked DACs which are using USB or SPDIF as their interface between the integrated streaming card and the DAC sectionā€¦ that would be insanely silly and would be a good indicator of a manufacturer that has no clue how to do digital audio correctly!

RAVENNA is nothing new and not something that Merging invented. Itā€™s a very cool piece of plumbing that has some very useful features, but itā€™s not the second coming!

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Iā€™m just struggling to find the DACā€™s that have these boards built in. I have known about several boards like Stream Unlimited, Converse etc for a long time, but having trouble finding more than 2 DACā€™s that use them. Iā€™m not finding very many on the Roon Partner list.

Anyways I listed the reasons I like the Zman a few posts back.

Every product listed on the Roon Ready partner list is either using one of the Stream or Comverse cards or has implemented a proprietary solution. AFAIK all of these are using I2S or some proprietary variant to transfer digital data from the streamer component to the DAC itself. Even the Pi HATs from HiFiBerry and others are using I2S.

Iā€™m still trying to find these DACā€™s that use some type of board that has Ethernet in, and I2S out. So far all I see is:

1: Ayre QX-5 Twenty
2: PS Audio Directstream with Bridge
3: Musical Pristina (not sure what they use inside)
4: Lumin A1
5: Auralic Altair

Thatā€™s about all I see. Everyone else is using either USB, AES/EBU or something from an external box. But if you can add to that list it would be great. Perhaps Iā€™m out of the loop when it comes to this technology today.

Every Roon Ready DAC with integrated networking. I donā€™t know how much clearer I can be.

This is disconcerting given what you do.

I read:

ā€œEvery product listed on the Roon Ready partner listā€

Okay add more to the list that I didnā€™t add. Thereā€™s several more companies on the partners list than that. Most use either USB or AES/EBU from a separate box.

Hereā€™s the Roon ready partner list for reference:

Sadly the tweaks will then move from USB to ethernet. Lotā€™s of people have found improvements with the TP Link fibre optic media converters for ethernet isolation and yes I know ethernet is already transformer isolation, but that doesnā€™t ensure 100% isolation. Some naughty things can still ā€˜jump the moatā€™.

So youā€™ll see companies trying to replace all those cheap (and very effective) TP Link converters with audiophile versions (and offer better power supplies for them too).

Btw Iā€™ve heard the improvements these make with a microRendu for example and the improvements are real but too many boxes for me personally.

Weā€™ll then probably also see ethernet signal regeneration devices comingā€¦

Thatā€™s why you build the product with fiber inputs only. It eliminates the possibility of anything upstream of the DAC other than DSP influencing the sound.

I caught onto that long ago:

But unfortunately with the Zman, this product has become a paperweight.

dCS
Krell
HiFi Berry
IQaudIO
Cocktail (I2S output)

Thatā€™s from currently shipping productsā€¦ There are likely more, but Iā€™m not going to go through every name on that list.

Nice, I wasnā€™t aware. Iā€™m open to learning ! :slight_smile:

There have been DACs around for a long time with galvanic isolation at the USB input but still a host of companies that recommend you add their USB isolation and regeneration devices before the DACā€™s USB input. Again I definitely donā€™t dispute the improvements but all the improvement devices will move from USB to ethernet. I donā€™t have a problem with that either - the people of these companies are trying to make a living, so good on them !

But I think more DACs companyā€™s will do what you guys did too with optically isolated ethernet inputs. But still weā€™ll then be told the ethernet signal needs to be regenerated at the DACs input (and again I donā€™t dispute that either). But when you said no more trinkets, everything will move from USB to ethernet.

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dCS uses AES/EBU. The Krell Vanguard is a new one I didnā€™t know about. Hifi berry and IQaudiO does do it with a Raspberry PI, but I was talking more about high end solutions. Cocktail Audio Doesnā€™t have a board built in that does Ethernet in/I2S out.

So that adds 1 more high end DAC to the list anyways. Still many more companies on that partner list though.

Yes a fiber PHY is a no brainer. Only reason not to use it is to support cable and trinket manufacturers.

Innovation can be a double edged sword. But in the information age, it must be embraced. Those who hold onto the past will find their business will also be in the past :slight_smile:

Yep agreed

The dCS Rossini is an I2S variant from the network card to the DAC. The Vivaldi Upsampler is I2S to its internal DD converter then AES + word clock to the separate DAC (which is essentially what I2S is doing, but the dCS implementation has more bandwidth.

One of the Cocktail boxes is a network streamer with an I2S output.

Any box with a network input and an internal DAC is going to be using I2S as the internal data transport. Much in the same way that CD players use I2S to get the data from the transport to the internal DAC.

Overall, though ALL of the devices on the Roon Ready list are getting network in and using I2S as the internal transport. From there they are either converting to analog or outputting in a standardized format (like SPDIF, AES, USB, etc). There is nothing wrong with that last step as it provides compatibility. As nice as I2S is there is no accepted standard for transmission outside of the box.

Normally I wouldnā€™t even participate in a thread like this, but the level of misinformation that you are presenting (as a digital expert) is the kind of thing that only serves to confuse people. Ultimately that leads to people making purchase decisions based on false information and that does a disservice to everyone.

And with that Iā€™m out.

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