Core Machine
QNAP Intel NAS, 8 GB RAM.
Network Details
NAS–>ethernet–>Netgear switch–>ethernet–>ORBI Router–>WiFI–>Orbi Satelite–>ethernet–>DSM
Description of Issue
I have Roon running on an Intel QNAP NAS, providing both Qobuz and local FLACs. Whilst playing music to the AEDSM Roon is using 20-25% CPU (total system CPU use about 35%), and a little over 1GB RAM (of 8GB, 4GB free), disk access and network use are minimal compared to available bandwidth. I know Roon don’t recommend running it on a NAS, but seems to be fine from a performance aspect.
The problem I am having is that after about 10-15 minutes of playing Roon loses contact with the AEDSM and the music stops. This happens with both local FLACs and Qobuz. I can instantly swap to Kazoo and play the same files (whether local or Qobuz) with no problem.
Appreciate it sounds like a network issue, but not sure where to start as I’m not sure what protocol Roon is using when it is set to access a Linn device (ie not Airplay), RAAT? UPNP?
Any ideas where to start? Note that its not practical to move the NAS and I can’t get wifi out of the chain.
I think I mentioned it on another thread here (and I don’t think it’ll be much of a help to you) but I had a similar issue, which arose most days, and sometimes several times in a day, with my Linn KDS when I ran Roon Core on an HP Microserver running Windows 10. The marker that moves through the track on the ‘now playing’ screen would freeze, and only a reboot of the DS would rectify things.
My suspicion was network as I was using Homeplugs between DS and server, so I moved the server to sit next to the DS, connecting both to the same Netgear switch. No improvement at all. I then splashed out on a NUC and installed ROCK. That was a year ago and I’ve not had the issue since. I have to assume it was a problem with either Windows or the NIC on the server. Interestingly, as far as I can see from messages here, this problem only seems to affect Linn users, even though there are other ‘Roon Tested’ pieces of hardware out there.
Are you able to temporarily install your Core on another machine?
Michael
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Thanks for the reply. No reboot needed and Roon will reconnect after a few minutes + Kazoo works fine with the same files/stream so I don’t think it is the same. Although I have wifi in the chain, bandwidth is high and the stream to the Linn barely touches it. Don’t ahve any other option for Roon core. The problem could be to do with Roon core, but if so I suspect it is the network link to the Linn rather than performance.
I own both a Klimax system hub and a Selekt system hub, different locations. Roon talks to Linn endpoints using the Songcast protocol. My cores are small PCs (NUCs or similar) running Linux (Ubuntu Server 20.04.2). I haven’t had anything like you describe in the last year, but I had some problems like you describe when I first got the Klimax. There’s still an intermittent problem, mainly with the Klimax, where play stops just before the end of the last track of an album, preventing the Linn endpoint from going back to sleep.
My sense is that Linn endpoints are very sensitive to network details. When you use Kazoo, the Linn endpoint pulls the tracks from the server using DLNA, rather than Songcast. Songcast is (AFAIK) UDP-based and intended for synchronizing multiple endpoints, both which make it a lot more sensitive to packet loss. DLNA uses TCP (as does Roon RAAT), which is a lot more robust.
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Thanks for that, it is helpful. I actually use SongCast to record from vinyl over the same network (in the opposite direction) and have zero lost packets. I guess I’ll have to break wireshark out. At least I have a bit more to go on. Disappointing though.
OK, no wireshark yet, but just caught a disconnect in the Roon logs. Doesn’t give much insight. Note that I was playing another stream to another device at the same time (which didn’t connect) and I was watching the NAS performance (20% CPU, < 1GB RAM, 1.3 MBS network).
06/15 20:36:58 Trace: [Ev's Study] [HighQuality 28.9x, 24/96 FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 3:14/5:43] Party - Aldous Harding
06/15 20:36:59 Info: [stats] 1655mb Virtual, 575mb Physical, 225mb Managed, 0 Handles, 84 Threads
06/15 20:37:01 Trace: [Main Room] [Lossless, 24/192 FLAC => 24/192] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 0:46/7:36] Free City Rhymes - Sonic Youth
06/15 20:37:02 Trace: [broker/accounts] [heartbeat] now=6/15/2021 11:07:02 AM nextauthrefresh=6/15/2021 11:52:09 AM nextmachineallocate=6/15/2021 2:52:02 PM
06/15 20:37:04 Trace: [Ev's Study] [HighQuality 28.9x, 24/96 FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 3:20/5:43] Party - Aldous Harding
06/15 20:37:06 Trace: [Main Room] [Lossless, 24/192 FLAC => 24/192] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 0:51/7:36] Free City Rhymes - Sonic Youth
06/15 20:37:09 Trace: [Ev's Study] [HighQuality 28.9x, 24/96 FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 3:25/5:43] Party - Aldous Harding
06/15 20:37:11 Trace: [Main Room] [Lossless, 24/192 FLAC => 24/192] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 0:56/7:36] Free City Rhymes - Sonic Youth
06/15 20:37:14 Info: [stats] 1670mb Virtual, 590mb Physical, 251mb Managed, 0 Handles, 84 Threads
06/15 20:37:14 Trace: [Ev's Study] [HighQuality 28.9x, 24/96 FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 3:31/5:43] Party - Aldous Harding
06/15 20:37:16 Trace: [Main Room] [Lossless, 24/192 FLAC => 24/192] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:01/7:36] Free City Rhymes - Sonic Youth
06/15 20:37:19 Trace: [Ev's Study] [HighQuality 28.9x, 24/96 FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 3:35/5:43] Party - Aldous Harding
06/15 20:37:21 Trace: [Main Room] [Lossless, 24/192 FLAC => 24/192] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:06/7:36] Free City Rhymes - Sonic Youth
06/15 20:37:24 Trace: [Ev's Study] [HighQuality 28.8x, 24/96 FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 3:41/5:43] Party - Aldous Harding
06/15 20:37:27 Trace: [Main Room] [Lossless, 24/192 FLAC => 24/192] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:11/7:36] Free City Rhymes - Sonic Youth
06/15 20:37:29 Info: [stats] 1681mb Virtual, 600mb Physical, 238mb Managed, 0 Handles, 84 Threads
06/15 20:37:30 Trace: [Ev's Study] [HighQuality 28.8x, 24/96 FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 3:46/5:43] Party - Aldous Harding
06/15 20:37:31 Info: ---------------------------------------------------------------------
06/15 20:37:31 Info: SongcastDirect Receiver removed OpenHome.Net.ControlPoint.CpDevice
06/15 20:37:31 Info: ---------------------------------------------------------------------
06/15 20:37:31 Debug: _RemoveSongcastDirectEndpoint(Linn Akurate Exakt DSM)
06/15 20:37:31 Trace: [songcastdirect] [Linn Akurate Exakt DSM] Transition Connected => Idle
06/15 20:37:31 Info: [songcastdirect] [Linn Akurate Exakt DSM] ---[ Unsubscribe time service on Linn Akurate Exakt DSM ]-------
06/15 20:37:31 Debug: dispose endpoint
06/15 20:37:31 Trace: [songcastdirect] [Linn Akurate Exakt DSM] dispose epintegration
06/15 20:37:31 Info: [transport] destroyed zone Main Room was playing? True
06/15 20:37:31 Trace: [zone Main Room] Suspend
06/15 20:37:31 Info:
--[ SignalPath ]---------------------------------------------
SignalPath Quality = Lossless
Elements:
Source Format=Flac 192000/24/2 BitRate=5463 Quality=Lossless
Output OutputType=SongcastDirect Quality=Lossless SubType= Model=Linn Akurate Exakt DSM
------------------------------------------------------------
06/15 20:37:31 Info: [zone Main Room] OnPlayFeedback Stopped
06/15 20:37:31 Info: [zone Main Room] Canceling Pending Sleep
06/15 20:37:31 Info: [zone Main Room] Canceling Pending Sleep
06/15 20:37:31 Info: [audio/env] [zoneplayer -> stream] All streams were disposed
And here it is coming back a few minutes later. No intervention from me and no interruption to the other stream.
06/15 20:48:59 Trace: [zone Main Room] PlayPause
06/15 20:48:59 Trace: [zone Main Room] Unpause
06/15 20:48:59 Trace: [zone Main Room] Selecting Source state=Paused
06/15 20:48:59 Trace: [zone Main Room] Unsuspend
06/15 20:48:59 Info: [ERROR_GETTING_TAG] [zoneplayer] Playing: /share/CACHEDEV1_DATA/.qpkg/RoonServer/roonmnt/Multimedia/FLAC/Hi-Res/Sonic Youth/NYC Ghosts & Flowers/Sonic Youth - 01. Free City Rhymes.flac
06/15 20:48:59 Info: [ERROR_GETTING_TAG] [zoneplayer] Open Result (Playing):Result[Status=Success]
06/15 20:48:59 Info: [ERROR_GETTING_TAG] [zoneplayer] Performing initial seek to 76000
06/15 20:48:59 Info: [audio/env] [zoneplayer] All streams were disposed
06/15 20:48:59 Info: [ERROR_GETTING_TAG] [zoneplayer] Starting playback
06/15 20:48:59 Trace: [prebuffer] ready 652800/1920000 (34%) @ 76/456 sec
06/15 20:49:00 Trace: [songcastdirect] [Linn Akurate Exakt DSM] Transition Idle => AwaitingConnection
06/15 20:49:00 Info: [library] saved recent ProfileId=1d82a7eb-e422-43ba-85d9-111f4f463c87 Time=6/15/2021 11:19:00 AM DataType=album Type=long_nav MetadataId=1653113 ContentId=160047 LibraryId=160047
06/15 20:49:00 Trace: [songcastdirect] [Linn Akurate Exakt DSM] got Scd client 192.168.0.40:50984
06/15 20:49:00 Trace: [songcastdirect] [Linn Akurate Exakt DSM] Transition AwaitingConnection => Connected
06/15 20:49:00 Info: [songcastdirect] [Linn Akurate Exakt DSM] [client:192.168.0.40:50984] OnRead(off=0, count=15)
06/15 20:49:00 Info:
--[ SignalPath ]---------------------------------------------
SignalPath Quality = Lossless
Elements:
Source Format=Flac 192000/24/2 BitRate=5463 Quality=Lossless
Output OutputType=SongcastDirect Quality=Lossless SubType= Model=Linn Akurate Exakt DSM
------------------------------------------------------------
06/15 20:49:00 Info: buffering media is lossless Flac => True
06/15 20:49:00 Info: [zone Main Room] OnPlayFeedback Playing
06/15 20:49:00 Trace: [Main Room] [Lossless, 24/192 FLAC => 24/192] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:16/7:36] Free City Rhymes - Sonic Youth
06/15 20:49:00 Info: [ERROR_GETTING_TAG] [zoneplayer] Queueing: /share/CACHEDEV1_DATA/.qpkg/RoonServer/roonmnt/Multimedia/FLAC/Hi-Res/Sonic Youth/NYC Ghosts & Flowers/Sonic Youth - 02. Nevermind (What Was It Anyway).flac
06/15 20:49:01 Trace: [Ev's Study] [HighQuality 29.4x, 24/96 FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:36/3:04] What if Birds Aren't Singing They're Screaming - Aldous Harding
06/15 20:49:01 Info: [ERROR_GETTING_TAG] [zoneplayer] Open result (Queueing): Result[Status=Success]
06/15 20:49:03 Warn: [songcastdirect] [Linn Akurate Exakt DSM] time discontinuity. Expected 76, Got 78
06/15 20:49:03 Warn: [songcastdirect] [Linn Akurate Exakt DSM] time discontinuity. Expected 77, Got 78
06/15 20:49:05 Trace: [Main Room] [Lossless, 24/192 FLAC => 24/192] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:21/7:36] Free City Rhymes - Sonic Youth
06/15 20:49:06 Trace: [Ev's Study] [HighQuality 29.4x, 24/96 FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:41/3:04] What if Birds Aren't Singing They're Screaming - Aldous Harding
06/15 20:49:10 Trace: [Main Room] [Lossless, 24/192 FLAC => 24/192] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:26/7:36] Free City Rhymes - Sonic Youth
Is there no official support from Roon? Only a community forum? I also find the android version of the remote app crashes semi frequently. Won’t be extending beyond the free trial as things stand.
I agree.
I couldn’t get my Linn KDS/3 to work properly when it was connected directly to my ASUS router.
As per Linn’s recommendations, I inserted a NETGEAR unmanaged switch, the GS108, in-between the router and the KDS and it now works perfectly.
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Well there is a GS108 in the path, but not between the DSM and the Orbi satellite.
I have a spare GS105 kicking around as it happens, so I stuck it between the DSM and the satellite. It may or may not be coincidence, but it did last the longest yet before Roon lost the plot. It still lost the plot though and I could switch straight to Kazoo with no connection problem, playing from Minimserver on the same NAS as Roon.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
1 Like
No problem 
Looking at your network, I think the fubamental problem may lie in your MESH system/Orbi satellite.
Is there any way you could ‘hard wire’ the Linn to the router via the GS105?
I am quite sure you are right, in that there is something in the network that is interfering with how Roon does it’s business!
However, it doesn’t interfere with Songcast itself (I can record 32 bit data across it without dropouts - which is far more demanding than the stream from Roon to the DSM) or accessing the DSM (via http or via Kazoo - OH/upnp) and there is no problem with bandwidth.
Unfortunately, I can’t physically connect everything up, due to location of everything (thus the network setup). The best I can do is connect a laptop to the switch with wireshark running and see if my non-expert eyes can spot anything.
I assume the Roon staff know how Roon works… I thought this was the official support (no other contact method that I can see)? No response from them though…
Agh… forgot the laptop doesn’t have an ethernet port, needs a USB adapter!
Have a desktop running into the switch which the NAS is on, but can’t see the packets going from the NAS to the DSM unfortunately. Suspect I’m stuck… 
Well, despite posting as much info as I can and waiting over a week, there is no response at all from Roon support staff. This is extremely disappointing, especially given the expense of Roon compared with other music server software.
This support forum states “The Support category is different from other areas of the Roon Community Site, in that this is where Roon users report issues and get help from our Support Team.” Not in my case it seems.
So, I am cancelling my trial. It is unfortunate as I was actually starting to see what Roon offers and how it provides value. Being able to use a single control point to deal with all my listening devices (four different set-ups in four different rooms), not to mention personal devices was really appealing. Furthermore, using Qobuz through the Linn Kazoo app is awful, with Roon it is a different world. Not much use if it only plays for a few minutes though!
I am extremely disappointed in the lack of support.