Roon 1.8 Play Stops to Sonos OneSL pair

Support
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Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

Dell T310 server, 16gb memory, Windows Server 2019

Network Details (Including networking gear model/manufacturer and if on WiFi/Ethernet)

Netgear and Cisco. Only use wired for Roon services

Audio Devices (Specify what device you’re using and its connection type - USB/HDMI/etc.)

Pair of Sonos OneSL speakers, Squeezebox Boom and Radio in a zone

Description Of Issue

Version 1.7 played well to the Sonos devices and to the Squeezebox devices. The Core under 1.7 was on a Qnap NAS. Roon 1.8 was initially updated on the Qnap device and subsequently moved onto a Dell T310 server running Server 2019. Regardless of the device running the core, under 1.8, playback of music from my library “stops” frequently and randomly to the Sonos devices but seldom fails to the Squeezebox devices. I have several playlists that have just under 3000 songs each that I queue up to these devices. I play music as background throughput the house 24x7.

When playback falters, the server process, Android or Windows, shows that music is supposedly still playing to the devices. The activity indicator for the song currently playing shows activity, but no sound. In addition, the playing time line is not moving to indicate actual playback. The play/pause button indicates play. Under Windows, I can stop play and then restart on the same song and it will play. Under Android, I have to use the previous song/next song buttons to restart playback. Using the play/stop button will “stop” play but will not function to start playback again.

I have seen where the gap between the previous song and the one on which playback has stopped of up to 18 hours. The Sonos devices are the most trouble prone; stopping sometimes after a couple of songs and at other times running for a day or so. The Squeezebox devices running on the same core will play for days without issue. I don’t think the server running the core is an issue since both types of devices do not display the same failures, only the Sonos devices. I don’t doubt that there may be issues with the Sonos firmware, but these same speakers were more stable under 1.7 than 1.8. (I do like 1.8 but there is more work needed around stability and device support.)

All of my Roon environment is wired. I do not use WiFi for music or other streaming. (All of my video and multimedia streamers run wired as well.)

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Hey @robert_merritt,

I appreciate the detailed description of the issue and your setup (by the way, it’s pretty cool that you’re using all-around wired connections for your audio setup :sunglasses:).

I am very sorry it took us this long to get back to you - we had hoped it was going to be much much sooner :pleading_face:

I was wondering, in these past two weeks have your Sonos devices continued to have trouble streaming music without interruption? Also, have you checked if they are updated to the latest firmware?

Thanks in advance :pray: . I hope we get to help :nerd_face:

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Hi Rebeka, Thanks for your input. After upgrading all of the Roon instances to 1.8 bld 790, the frequency of stoppage on the Sonos One devices is greatly reduced. Over the past few weeks, playback has only stopped once, a huge improvement. The Sonos devices do have the latest firmware according to the Sonos website.

Thanks for your checking back.

Bob

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Hi. Well the problem described in this posting chain has returned. Bld 1.8 790 worked great. After upgrading to 795, Sonos playback is so bad it is unusable. Constant hangs with no sound but the core and server processes saying that streaming is occurring. In one instance, 15 songs in a row hung. To verify my side, I added the same music library used by Roon to an instance of Twonky. Both Roon and Twonky run as virtual instances on the same physical server. Roon on Svr2019 and Twonky on Win10. Twonky plays fine using the same songs failing constantly via Roon. The also used the Sonos app to play the same failing songs. Sonos One SL played just fine. My Squeezebox devices play perfect. I even played the same test songs on my laptop via Roon and they played fine.

I am not sure what Roon develop and testing are doing, but this yo-yo back and forth between fixing and then breaking the same functions repeated is getting a bit old. It is almost that there is inadequate change control and source code control.

Please focus on fixing the quality and functionality issues before jumping into new releases. I feel Roon needs to stabilize their product then look to add new features and functionality.

Bob

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Hi. After updating to the 806 release, the Sonos reliability is not much changed. I had 15 songs queued and playback stopped about every 3 songs. When viewing from the server app, both windows and android, the playback progress bar at the bottom does not move. The visual icon indicating playback action is running. Stopping playback and restarting playback has no effect. Still no sound.

Thanks,
Bob

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Update 15-Jul. I continued testing, checking out network, and the checking out the server process. When no improvement, I decided to move off of the virtual (hyper-v) server instance running Roon Core and move back to my Qnas TVS-871.

Following a full migration, I began retesting both the Squeeze and Sonos environments. As of today, both device categories have run for over 24 hours without a hitch. I am not sure why Windows Server 2019 running as a virtual instance kept failing on the Sonos devices. Other video streaming services, Twonky, are running fine in a virtualized Windows 10 environment. I might try switching the Twonky service to the Server 2019 platform and see what happens.

1 Like
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hi Rebeka. I don’t know if you have had the opportunity to review updates I have posted about my Sonos issues. I believe I may have found a common cause in the OS supporting Roon.

Bob

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Hello @robert_merritt,

Now I did have the chance to read all of them in one go. I’m so sorry for missing them at the time that you posted :woman_facepalming:

I cannot thank you enough for exploring options in all this time. I appreciate you walking us through the steps you’ve taken. It’s great to see you not giving up :heart_eyes:

I’ll keep a closer eye on this thread, not to miss your other replies :pray:

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Good Day. I have some updates on my SONOS issue. I am running the latest updates on my Win10 system, Qnap NAS (Core), and clients on my Android devices. I have checked recently with SONOS about any firmware updated, but nothing from them.

  1. Overall playback to the SLOne devices is improving, especially since the last 2 software releases. That said, there are some strange behaviors going on. (a) the MP3 process and support is prone to failure, especially with low bitrate encoded files. I have lots of 96-192 bitrate files from the early days of ripping software for PCs. The FLAC files are much more stable; however, the playback of these files seems to be really memory sensitive on the NAS. When the NAS memory get consumed to about the 80% level, playback starts to break up, as though file streaming/cache can’t get sent, and then playback stops. This is not happen until the new releases with the new caching scheme.

The next issue that stated is that support for my Logitech Squeeze devices, configured into a zone failed. Playback will start for what looks like one set of local (Squeeze device) buffer and stops. I had to break the zone to get playback running. I am not sure, but it seems that the memory issue above and this zone issue appear to relate to the caching change.

The last update issue is that playback management on the Android or PC devices; managing playback to the Sonos or Logitech devices, hangs. You start playback and it runs. After some time, you see what is apparently being played, but the songs I hear versus what the app says do not match. In some cases, I have found that sound playback is up to 3 songs behind what the app says is being played. When this happens, the overall playback begins to falter. The app, especially on Android, just freezes.

I did test the Sonos playback using the My Radio links to Radiotunes.com (paid subscriptions). All of the stations tested playback fine. The only issue remains is Roon’s lack of connectivity and reinitalization of the Internet connection. In this case, either Roon or Radiotunes disconnects after about 12 hours of playback. When this happens, Roon does not appear to disconnect its link and re-establish a new link to resume playback. Since my goal is to get Roon to play 24x7 either from my own library of the My Radio selections, there is still work to do in this area.

Thanks,
Bob

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Hey @robert_merritt,

Thanks for following up on this thread and for keeping such a close eye on how the issues unfolded in the meantime.

You mentioned that playback issues are associated with bitrate encoded files (96-192). If you move some of these files from your NAS to a different storage location, does the interruption still happens? Same for the FLAC files? I’m trying to figure out if, maybe, the NAS has something to do with the playback interruption, by moving these files somewhere else and setting up that location as a watched folder.

If I may ask, if you only play to any one zone (Sonos, or Logitech), do any of these issues come up? Or do they show up when you group them or play to more than one zone at the same time?

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Hi, I created about 12 playlists for New Age music: generic (in my view), Healing, relaxation, meditation, nature sounds, etc. Each playlist has 2-3 thousand songs, mixed artists, etc. I typically play separate playlists on Sonos and Squeezebox devices. I do eventually play all playlists on both devices. The Squeezebox devices do not tend to stop playing unless the core resets. The Sonos device(s) frequently stop playing, most of the times when I tracked stoppages, the current “playing song” was an older MP3. The only time the Sonos device stops on a FLAC song was one that I had to run through a converter going from MP3 to FLAC because Roon core would not import the file. The converter did not complain about the MP3 file, its contents, or file structure; only Roon. [ Other music management software like Media Player and Winamp never had a problem with any of the files.]

Just to refresh our data point, the SONOS devices; 2 ONE SL speakers, are configured as a pair using the SONOS software. Roon would not create a ZONE on these devices so I had to use the vendor features. Both speakers are wired, even the stereo link zone uses the wired link.

Up until the last Roon release or next to last release, I never had a problem with creating or using the Squeezebox Zone functionality. I have a Squeezebox Radio and Squeezebox Boom zone configures. Both of these devices are also wired.

Tracking songs that fail now is frequently impossible following the caching change. The song indicated on the players screen as current is often incorrect. The song being played can be 2-3 songs prior to the current one in the queue. It appears that the Core marks a song as played when cached, not actually played on the device itself. I hope this issue is solved or we are given the option to use the older cache scheme that did not have this tracking issue.

As for storage locations, I have staged Roon on different operating systems and different disks. The failures are consistent regardless of OS or disk. I had really good success when I staged my Roon core on a Windows Server 2019 virtual image. Unfortunately, since there is no way to easily autostart Roon Core on windows; server or desktop, I moved back to my Qnap TVS-871 NAS. The media is hosted on disks local to the NAS. Even the NAS local storage was moved at times between different discs; always the same share name since I have not found a way on the NAS to point the Roon Core to a specific volume and directory structure so have had to stick with the NAS shared folder approach.

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Forgot to mention that my playlists run for about 2-5 days each, depending on the actual files selected. The limitation is to keep the overall file count below the about 3000 file threshold capability for Roon Core to randomize playback; otherwise, I would have one playlist per “genre” type with some, like the “generic” New Age one would run for about 40-45 days then repeat.

I play music for both immediate listening, but mostly as background throughout most of the house. I do have the desire to add another pair of Sonos ONE SL speakers for my living room, but not before Roon support Zones for Sonos stereo paired setups.

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Hi @robert_merritt ,

I am reviewing your thread, thank you for the detailed explanations thus far, I have a few clarification questions:

What happens if you temporarily host the Roon Core on the Windows 10 PC instead of the QNAP Core (to remove the QNAP performance from the equation). You can use these instructions to make the change:

  • Create a Backup of your current database
  • Open Roon on the other PC you wish to try as the Core
  • Roon Settings → General
  • Disconnect
  • On the “Choose your Core” screen, press “Use this PC”
  • If asked to Unauthorize, you can go ahead and do so. You are limited to one active Roon Core at a time but you are free to switch between them as often as you’d like.
  • Verify if the same behavior occurs on the different PC

If you try to play to these as separate zones, does the issue still occur on one or both of them? If the issue only occurs on one, that would be an interesting data point.

If you try to play a playlist of only MP3 songs, are you able to reproduce the issue quicker?

Let us know the above when possible!

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Hi. I have continued testing. Apologies, but I have not moved the core yet since the core used to be on Win10 and tried it on Win Server 2012R2 and had the same issues prior to moving back to Qnap. I will do this test soon. I can’t leave the core on Windows since you don’t have a “service” setup included as part of the install/upgrade procedure. Having to log into the Windows system after every restart, etc. is unacceptable.

I am hesitant to touch the One SL configuration to break the stereo setup. Their setup and application is terrible. It took several attempts to configure then move the speakers off of wireless and onto wired. I did try initially to use a Roon Zone but that failed with Roon reporting it could not take control of the devices and community input pointed to having to use the Sonos configuration instead. The One SL has one unit indicated as using Streaming; which is the one I send the music stream to; and the other unit indicates Appleplay as the protocol. Both units are wired, as is all of my music devices.

As for the third question, I restarted playback of one of the 2,500 song playlists on the One SL pair and on my Squeezebox Boom unit. The SL playback continues to fail. Playback has failed within a couple of hours, withing a 6-10 hour playback cycle, and at times simply stops playback without any error messages or anything. The Boom never failed.

I will try to upload 4 mp3 files. Two files are the “last successful” songs played and the second are the “failed” songs. The “failed” songs are definitely listed as the ones trying to be played. With the new cache scheme, it is nearly impossible to accurately identify the song failed other than the indication that the core continues to try playback even though no playback progress is being indicated or any sound; only the animated indicator next to a song. The cache update ends up with the core thinking it is playing song A while the actual playback is frequently 2 to 3 songs behind the indicator.

This may be a recap, but when playback “fails” the core continues to think it is doing something. Stopping and restarting song playback does not do anything other than the playback animated indicator stops moving and restarts when you hit play again. In every failure so far, if you us the “previous song” button, playback jumps back and starts up. If you either let this previous song play or hit the “next song” button, playback of the “failed” song succeeds.

I have restarted all of Windows units with the server installed and the android tablet and phone that have the Roon App installed without touching the core. All of the server/apps indicate that playback of the “failed” song is still running, so it appears that the failure is focused on the core or the core to One SL units. If you restart the core and play the failed song, it plays correctly.

I have checked the Sonos site for firmware updates for the One SL, but have not found any recent updates. The failure scenarios and the fact that the “failed” song does play correctly as noted above and never fails to Squeezebox, I wonder about the interaction between Roon and the One SL speakers. Do we have a cache issue, overflow of buffers, communications failure more in the Sonos devices than in the core. Given that my 2 Squeezebox devices can play all of my music without fail seems to indicate more of a Sonos issue. That said, Sonos does not seem to want to really listen to its customers. Maybe you will have more success diagnosing this issue or getting Sonos attention.

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I don’t see a way to upload any files. If you would like copies of the 4 music files, please send me a link to where I can upload them.

Bob

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Sorry, one more thought. Since I have yet to have a failure with a .flac file recorded as .flac, I wonder is there may be a .mp3 codex issue either on the core or Sonos side.

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Hi @robert_merritt ,

The decoding happens on the Core before being sent to the endpoints, if it is a codec issue, it should impact other zones as well.

Windows Server 2012R2 requires a codec pack, please see:

Dependencies

Roon requires certain codecs to be installed on your system. Without these codecs, Roon can have trouble importing or playing certain kinds of files, which can cause instability. The Media Pack for Windows Server 2012 can be found here, and is required in order to use Roon: https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/details.aspx?id=40837

For this kind of setup we often find that a headless Roon OS or Linux install will work much better.

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The win server 2012 comment was for information purposes since I used that OS for the roon core early on. When various recommendations to enable some form of automatic startup of roon core at a Windows boot did not work, I stopped using Windows and moved back to Qnap as the Qnap solution auto-starts.

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