That’s interesting, in my experience looking after people cars, many times I have a customer notice a noise, it may be something needing attention, it may not. But they now focus on this noise, they turn the radio first down, then off to listen for this noise. Even after a repair which brings the system back to normal they still dive down the noise rabbit hole.
It can be hard work to get them to just turn on and up the radio, drive the vehicle and forget about it.
Over years I have learned not to just repair vehicle but also manage the owners psychology with regard to it. It’s not enough for me to repair it, they have to believe and have confidence that I have done so. Expectations need to be managed, “it’s not a Rolls Royce” I implore with humour… (unless it is)
Now add this psychology to Hi Fi and see what an un-winnable battle you have on your hands.
I’ve been trying for several days to get used to the new sound signature of roon 1.8. Unfortunately no success. There is a shortcoming in the low-frequency range, which simulates a better spatiality and resolution. This is particularly sad with classical orchestral music. But also piano music. Ingeborg Baldaszti’s large Fazioli grand piano fared like Gregory Porter. Both have had a highly effective Roon diet. They sound sinewy, tight and well trained. They have given up the lust and abundance of music. Sure, both come down to the low frequency range. But they don’t hold him anymore. What defines space and abundance. The organic connection is lost, high-frequency peaks dominate. This makes hearing uncomfortable after a long time at the latest.
My experience is that resolution and spatiality also work without the omission of low-frequency sound components. Especially when the power supply is working particularly well: The bass gets deeper, the dynamics, especially in the bass range, increase, the impression of space and the separation of the instruments increases.
There are tons of technical explanations here in the forum about signal purity and jitter and USB cabling and so on. I admire the courage of those users who, after the disastrous and massively flawed release of 1.8, firmly believe that at least nothing went wrong with the sound.
Two dealers that I have contacted in the meantime have confirmed the complaints of customers about Roon on their own, that this particularly affects listeners of well-balanced audio-systems. At the same time, the dealers gave me the recommendation that Roon was unfortunately not a good choice in terms of sound, and that if you really want to listen to digital music well, you have to switch to other software. I will be forced to try this conversion to other software. Software recommendations include the integration of Squeezelite or the HQ player, as well as Audirvana. I would also be interested in the experiences of others who see them as a more convincing sound solution instead of Roon.
Maybe there is still a way, that Roon can improve the sound. And at 1.9 a new great sound is created. And 2.0 will be a hit. Almost as good as 2.1. But that is of course superior to everything that has gone before. "Now even better! With a new recipe! “ I’m really looking forward to it.
Otherwise, in addition to alternative software or Roon rework, I also have the option of the psychological expertise found in some of the posts bringing improvement. Accordingly, everyone who hears a deterioration in the sound just imagines it. So there is still hope.
As soon as you alienate everyone else that hasn’t got “well balanced systems” I lose interest in your opinion.
I find it amazing that a lot of users with “well balanced systems” are using DSP to manipulate them to their taste or compensate for a “not well balanced room”.
I love some of the systems listed on here and the opinions I respect most are the ones that don’t try and make them sound elitist.
Actually no, with light it’s just the opposite. Blacker blacks on OLED panels have more light, a light for each pixel. Which renders deeper blacks.
Nothing wrong with this terminology if you understand it and I think plenty of people who run in both audio and video circles do get it. Resolving power gets into more technicalities with less correlation to other technologies, so it’s natural people are going to communicate in a way more people can understand.
Guessing from your posting history, it seems you’ve been less than happy with ROON’s ‘sound signature’ for a long time now…
How come you haven’t jumped ship long ago and used something ‘better sounding’?
What were the measures taken to be able to put up with it for so long?
I agree with you about one point. For a long time I had a hifi system which I though it was one of the best (and very expensive). The quality was nearly perfect but i had very often a kind of frustration and some day it was working ok and some day it was so beautiful. Then I changed everything thanks to my new reseller and now everything is perfect all the time. When you start to listen to music (all type of music) it is always a strong emotion because the scene is holographic (very deep and large scene) and music instruments are so realistic even those in the back of the scene especially on classical. Everyone who listened it agree with that.
Thus the psychological effect is more because many systems are not good enough and a frustration is here on most type of music. Sometime it is better to have a warm system which is not too precise than have a very precise which is not good enough to give any emotion when listening to music.
My bias was that I would hear zero SQ improvement, as that is what all the hype lead me to believe (as I don’t do DSP). I was totally shocked to hear a significant, immediate improvement. But, later, I noticed a lot less usage of system resources, so I guess that is why my system sounds better, less strain of it.
Thank you for referring to my posting history. This makes it clearer to myself what I find increasingly difficult when using Roon.
I got involved with Roon because it was recommended to me when I bought a dedicated music server. Incidentally, the same manufacturer says today that he only installs Roon because the market wants it. In terms of sound, there would be better. What has kept me at Roon so far has been convenience.
In the meantime I take a critical look at all of this update stuff. In terms of the sound, there are regular changes after updates. You can get used to these changes. If you want. The same goes for the UI. The software will get you used to it. Will somehow work. And that every year. Is not my cup of tea. There is the interesting notion of present shrinkage. This means that what we experience as permanent and constant, what is present, is stable in ever shorter periods of time. That I expected this stability from a software is absurd. Maybe it’s because my audio system was sound stable for 20 years prior to using a music server. And when there were changes in the sound, I specifically aimed for them. Now these changes are permanent. Everything new, faster and faster. I am about to learn my lesson.
Strange. 1.8 is giving me significantly better bass response (tighter and more robust), and pianos sound more real. But, that is through MY system in MY room. Mileage may vary.
The more I read about how someone’s dealer helped them out of a bad spot, or made them realize how they could improve their sound the more it feels like people are actually talking about some sort of cult leader, or their corner pusher.
I’ve never had the (mis)fortune to interact with a dealer and yet some how I am perfectly happy with my setup, I know it could be improved with some absorption and if I was going all out by 2-4 subs to remove bass nodes but the rest of the chain is closer to perfection than has been possible up to this point in history, eg. very transparent / minimal distortion DAC / amp and linear speakers.
The sound quality issue seems to be more about preferences, a little similar to for example sigma-delta DAC and R2R DAC. One gives more clarity and details (Roon 1.8), one gives a more laid back and full sound (Roon 1.7).
I doubt Roon will worsen their audio pipeline to go back to 1.7 though, and Roon 1.8 is definitely more transparent than 1.7 (which in my opinion a music player should be).
My tests has been with DSP on though, I have not listened to Roon without DSP so I won’t comment on that.
The important thing to realize is that you’ve made the distinction between a perceived difference while using DSP, which there is a potential for change (though I’d be surprised if it was actually audible in most cases) a good deal (perhaps the majority) of people are talking about perceived differences with plain old un DSPd, one might say boring bit perfect playback.
each of our aural-neuro systems react differently to the distortions and other inaccuracies that ALL systems. And then the room the system is in, OMG!!! No matter how we try, that is and will always be far from perfect. All we can do is try to maximize our enjoyment.
But, the bit-perfect only applies to the digital domain. The differences lie in the ability of 1.8 to accurately convert that to analog, and in the suppression of any noise that might interfere with that conversion.
nice one! RAAT2 — who would have thought!