Roon 1.8 sound quality change?

Thanks for the link man,

Is quite comprehensive on the protocols themselves and the differences between versions.

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Have you heard Haim’s “Summer Girl,” with its reference to “Peoples Parties”? Great song. @LarryMagoo @William_Tomlinson

Since the beginning of availability of HR audio I almost always heard an advantage to 24 bits recordings, whatever the frequency range. It felt as a stronger advantage than higher sampling frequency sampling, sometimes really unsatisfactory as those felt often even more digital-sounding. Now, that was 15 or 20 years ago, back then the compute power available to us was considerably inferior to what we have today, and sampling rates that would overload yesterday’s personal computers are now far easier to handle - given the adequate software is used, and the jitter issues are otherwise addressed.
Since then, not only like everyone else I can use far more powerful computers for audio, my system has evolved, including the DAC (384 kHz/32 bits with high level of care regarding Power Supply, clock and shielding). The analog part is also better. Then, as I explained in earlier posts, I am convinced that the type of resampling as I use today really extracts a far better audio signal, particularly from the 44/16 files - addressing both issues mentioned previously in a more satisfactory way, especially for this “standard CD format”.

As a result the best HR files sound also even better and deeper, with a level of subtlety digging deep into the very low level information that yes, tends to blend in residual noise on CD format. And the fortissimi also appear more freely dynamic. Yet, at this level of quality, whatever the format, the quality of the mastering is important. Then for CD transfer the dynamic adjustment is more critical than on modern formats.

This is important as like many I have most of my purchased audio library files in CD format, an investment over many years that we are generally keen to value. And it is a massive satisfaction to hear what can be extracted today from this format (for me in the Roon/HQplayer setup), reminding us that its dynamic range and bandwidth were ment to be an excellent compromise on most systems, a fact that was long obliterated, in my opinion, by the deficiencies and inadequacies of reading media (CD drives issues) and the limitations of early generations of DACs, for the most of them. I have a small restriction for some timbric subtleties still - in fact I think that the CD truncation of higher harmonics ultimately affects our perception of delicate harmonic textures, and that fact alone pushes us towards HR input files, not only HR “reproduction”.

An anecdote is that 10 years ago I really believed the “Mastered for iTunes” was a better compromise format than CD. Now comparing CDs with the same recording in its MforI version with the better digital process, I prefer then uncompressed CD to the compressed HR of MforI. And the uncompressed 24/96 origin file, when available, indeed sounds better than its compressed MforI version. Lossy compression does therefore audibly affect audio reproduction. Of course if you do the comparison with insufficiently resolving equipment you conclude the opposite… Which was what apparently my case, 10 years ago :slight_smile:

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Well they have a similar line… “your smiles turn into crying, it’s the same release”…. Close enough….I wonder have they heard Joni or even know about her?

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. They are huge Joni fans and it is a definite quote from Peoples Parties.

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Hey Dan, no I’m not familiar with Haim. It’s a coincidence that I too grew up in the San Fernando Valley where they are from, back in those days Michael Jackson still lived there too until his Zoo caused his neighbors to ask him to leave; I left in 1977 and moved to NorCAL. The Joni recordings are good material through and through, and her lyrics are quite seductive to the emotions. I admit I am a sucker for that old 70’s tape / vinyl sound. Always up for a good lead on music bro; queued up Summer Girl.

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This is the perfect indication of a groundloop. Even the quitest equipment can become noisy with a groundloop. It’s not that the equipment was noisy by itself, the noise was created by the groundloop. Solve the groundloop and the noise goes away. That exactly what you did by powering the Chromecast from an external power supply or feed it to the Chord with an optical connection. The psu noise didn’t change, the chromecast filtering capabilities didn’t change, the grounding scheme changed. No magic, no voodoo, no expensives cures needed.

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I also recommend trying UTP cables for ethernet (unshielded). Many devices are designed wrong connected to the ethernet interface.

:+1:

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I’m not 100% sure this is the case but I’m not going to say it isn’t either. I’ve encountered a few ground loops (back in the day I used to sound mix amateur bands, no one even half good), and this sounds different. That said I’ll happily confess to been an unqualified enthusiast in matters analogue. More guided by ears than qualification :wink: . No reason to doubt your diagnosis BTW.

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I did this for my son’s room. Chromecast audio powered by the speakers USB port, 3.5mm out of Chromecast to speakers analogue in. It was noisy, went away with the powering cc by its own PSU.

The noise was created because of a groundloop. It went away because the groundloop was solved. It could also have been cured by the use of line level transformers between the chromecast output and the speakers input. People jump to easily to the conclusion that the cause is power supply noise. While the use of another power supply solved the problem, the power supply noise itself is not the cause.

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Sound Quality Change;

Windows 10 - Roon Core/Library (FLAC files) >
Ethernet >
Hub >
Ethernet >
Cambridge CXN v.2 >
Cambridge CXA80 >
Monitor Audio Silver 100 >
Ears >
BLISS

Stop trying to sell stuff and shift blame. Running on a different endpoint is likely to make zero difference if an interface is built well. Literally any piece of software with exclusive mode sounds better than roon including ones that also use hardware acceleration. You are also pointing at the software as the change so why does a 1250 dollar x86 computer with cheap parts running on linux “Change the topology”? How is that different than an ordinary pc? I could understand if it was hardware with specialized firmware but its just another hardware abstracted OS with all the same detrimental factors. Linux is not even good at audio. For the extremely niche pro audio comunity that uses it they basically have to use a real time kernal. Literally the only thing you could have done was put in a linear power supply for tight voltage regulation and reduced EMI and you didnt even do that.

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Moderators are not Roon staff, just volunteer users. I’m not trying to sell anything or ‘shift blame’, simply pointing out that a network connection can be less vulnerable to interference from processing noise. See the post below for further detail:

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The thing is many have a cable modem for Internet access from their provider introducing ground loop issues in their connected devices. Along with weak power supplies this is a really challenge to solve.

How does a cable modem introduce ‘ground loop issues in connected devices’? Ethernet is galvanically isolated at each end of the connection and if you use Cat 5e UTP there is no shield to carry over any ground connection to anything else.

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As you mentioned there are many Ethernet cables around that do pass on ground connection as not all are Cat 5e UTP

I have hardwired my MBPro to ethernet, it sounds way calmer with the WIFI radios turned off.

I find it analogous to the vivid setting on my tv, its bright and eye catching but after a while its fatiguing and tiresome.

I did A/B tests from the tidal desktop app to the room desktop app and I like the Roon app sound for a few minutes but then I yearn for sounds that’s a bit more true to life. It sounds a bit like apple’s spatial audio.

No change at all here, and as I understand things, Roon have made no changes to the sound, as it just delivers bit perfect files.
So we need to consider what else is happening.
What is your core running on, is your audio endpoint separated by a network etc

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