Roon, could you please get the basic usability stuff out of the way whilst you blaze new trails

  • FAILURE TO IDENTIFY AN ALBUM BECAUSE ROON’S METADATA SOURCES HAVE NO TRACK DURATION OR NO TRACK LISTING

I kinda get Roon’s reluctance to blindly match albums based only on Album Artist, Album and perhaps release date/year, but then at least allow us to filter on albums not identified for the aforementioned reasons - I have almost 4000 unidentified albums, many of which would fall into this category. Being able to focus that subset of unidentified albums would make for a significant reduction in the number of unidentified albums because I could handle them quickly, especially where only track duration is missing or track titles are missing but track count matches.

  • INABILITY TO SORT ALBUMS WHEN BROWSING CONTENT ASSIGNED TO A TAG:
    Some of my tags contain hundreds of albums, there are no sort options e.g. Sort by Album, Year, Label etc.

  • INABILITY TO SORT SEARCH RESULTS

I’m presented with an unordered list spanning several pages. Now what? Is it really necessary to use filter to find the artist or album I’m after?

  • PLACEMENT OF PLAYING XX TRACKS POPUP ON MOBILES:

That bloody little popup gets in the way on mobiles, please move it out of the playback control area.

Desktop - not interfering with you:

Mobile - what do you mean you want to slide through the track, piss off I’m in charge here, you’re just a bloody user.

  • MAKE ROONALBUMTAG AND ROONTRACKTAG FIRST CLASS CITIZENS WITH RESPECT TO PERFORMANCE AND FOCUS
    There have been numerous reports by users that use of ROONALBUMTAG and ROONTRACKTAG causes performance issues within Roon. Architecturally I can’t see why they’d be any different to any other browseable/ searchable data point within Roon. Please implement the necessary indexing or whatever optimisation is required in the code or database to make these first class citizens

When the performance aspect has been addressed, add them to Focus criteria to enable users to drill down into subsets of their library that include ROONALBUMTAG and ROONTRACKTAG as focus elements.

  • ADD BOOLEAN CAPABILITIES
    Need I say more…

  • ENSURE BROWSE POSITION IS REMEMBERED WHEN BACKING OUT OF AN ALBUM OR ARTIST
    There’s nothing more annoying than browsing a list (focused, filtered or otherwise), clicking through to an item and then being taken back to the first entry in the list when backing out. Fix it, please!

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The main frustration I have has partly been touched upon by @evand, but only partly.

Roon’s UI is a cluttered affair. I don’t like it. To be fair: the same thing goes for all music players I’ve ever used. They are all cluttered.

I navigate almost exclusively by usung search.

Roon is supposed to be both player and library manager/navigator, so search should be the foremost basic usabilty requirement for fast, efficient retrieval.

So DEVELOP A REAL SEARCH FUNCTION WITH BOOLEAN CAPACITIES.

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When searching from a specific browser area like Genre or Album…show the results of that browser initiated result first…dont when searching for a Genre list the results 5 levels below - this makes no sense what so ever. on a smaller display thats maybe 3 or pages below…on my 4K its still below the first page

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I’ll restate my red hot cherry

Box Set navigation is a pain, many classical compilations run to tens and many cases hundreds of discs, my classic example is Alfred Brendel where there are 114 discs , probably 100 or more were original Cd releases originally

The best Roon offers is 114 nice little hyperlinks (1.7 gave us a limited all track option ) you can’t filter or search without pulling back the entire db search . Eg filter on Beethoven would help . The All Track option is just as limited when it comes to big sets.

It needs an architectural rethink, a Box Set object with subordinate discs each with assignable artwork

Something so fundamental is missing , if I can set up something to do this in JRiver why can’t Roon

This is how it looks elsewhere

But AI and mobile are far more sexy

I will join @evand in posting stuff as it happens , but all this has been said before to no avail

My 2p

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The next weakness is Composer View,

Bach for me shows 1452 compositions ., admittedly you can filer on this view

Roon in general is Album based so why not show Composers by Album as an option with some Genre Buttons to filter by. Composition makes some sense but I personally tend to listen albums not single works. Take Chopin as an example many of his works a merely minutes long so there is a tendency (in me) to listen the Etudes en mass say

I suppose I am not alone in having a “Complete Works Set” for Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Brahms and Chopin in my collection. This makes my favourite composers difficult to navigate

This is how it looks in “another place”

in a mobile app I am 5 taps away from anywhere with no typing

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The unbearable persistence of Shuffle -

Constantly getting sandbagged by this. In the morning I listen to a Shuffled jazz queue and in the afternoon I tried to listen to some Mahler, e.g… We all know what happened. A shuffled symphony doesn’t make much sense.

I’ve gone through several iterations on how to address this.

Iteration #1 - Turn Shuffle off when a queue finishes. That is, the message “Go find something to play” is displayed… Problem is that, I suppose some people want Shuffle on all the time.

Iteration #2 - Have a switch that tells how one wants Shuffle to work. That is, whether it should persist until turned off or whether it should be turned off when the queue is ended. Problem is that, another switch is a kludge and a blight on society.

Iteration #3 - So simple. When a queue is started save the state of the Shuffle. When the queue ends, restore that state. That way, no matter what the present queue is set for, if Shuffle was on before that queue, it will be set to on when that queue ends and if off then it will be set to off. To set a new default for Shuffle, set the indicator state when the queue is empty.

This way everyone will be happy, but more importantly I will be happy.

This probably affects only those who listen to a mix of classical and something else, but still…

I am guessing the queue is a C++ object, so a new variable and a line of code in both the Constructor and Destructor. If they give me the source and I’ll code it for them. :smirk:

It’s been a while since I’ve used other media players, but as I recall Shuffle only lasted for the duration of the queue. Why Roon can’t address this to be inline with other players, when it would take so little to change and not effect the way Shuffle works now, must be due to some perverse stubbornness from the developers.

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“Play album” should reset shuffle. It doesn’t say SHUFFLE album. Shuffle persists even on restart. It is so stupid. I get infuriated just thinking of the number of times this has come up when using Roon.

I am convinced nobody at Roon uses shuffle, ever… otherwise how would this ridiculous, clunky behaviour persist? I get it Roon is “opinionated” but nobody has ever given a satisfying explanation as to why this is the way it is.

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I edited my post to remove a comment about the shuffle state being unavailable on an empty queue because that has apparently been addressed. But I stopped even trying to use shuffle a year ago because of this behaviour so I didn’t notice :upside_down_face: and the main issue detailed above still remains. I wonder if “giving up” is/will be an issue for Roon with some of these LONG unaddressed issues we all deal with.

Personally I almost never visit the forums anymore because of that. Happy customers don’t visit forums they say. I guess exasperated ones neither. This isn’t “fix it or I’ll unsubscribe!” … I get value from Roon. I just find the path of development disappointing. Prioritize some of these long standing issues. Or they just don’t recognize them as issues. Anyway, back to not posting.

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As other software players catch up I suspect it will become an issue. First mover advantage doesn’t come with longevity these days and people will switch to other solutions if they provide more of what they want than Roon does.

I’m a lifer and I find value in Roon but at the same time I find it incredibly frustrating and at times infuriating to work with (I’m thinking of you, you ill-placed, pointless little track count notification fcker). I’d even be prepared to continue contributing financially, but if the basic usability issues remain unaddressed and all we keep getting is bells and whistles whilst the basics aren’t bedded down I’ll switch as soon as there’s a better alternative.

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WRT Shuffle: we have that.

Whether settings should persist, and whether we should introduce a switch to control the choice, is a widespread issue. Should the seat heater be persistent, or apply to the current trip? Should delayed shutter apply to the next capture or until the camera goes to sleep or until the camera is turned off or until reset?

A switch is a blight upon humanity (see today’s camera menus), but there is a better way and Roon has it: two different actions with different behaviors.

If you go to the queue and turn on Shuffle, it stays in effect until reset.
If you click Shuffle instead of Play, it applies to that action and doesn’t persist. This is true whether you shuffle an album, a focus, a genre, a playlist or whatever.

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Not if one wants to add more than one album to the queue.

If one adds an album to the queue and Shuffle has been turned on from the queue screen, then Roon will Shuffle the new addition with the current queue contents.

If Shuffle is chosen from the album screen, then the first album to be queued gets Shuffled, but succeeding albums (where Shuffle is chosen form the album screen) just overlay the present queue with the newly chose, albeit Shuffled, album.

Indeed!

The best way is option #3 in my post.

At least, we agree on that.

Which seems correct. But the problem with that mode is that the setting is persistent, messes with the future Mahler.

Who would want to do that? :grinning:

You are right, incrementally building a queue and playing it shuffled doesn’t fit the model.

Similarly, on my Fuji camera, there is no way to specify that the next dozen pictures of the river should all have self-timer (to reduce shutter blur) but for the next half-dozen pictures of the waterfall I don’t want it.

Poor analogy I think, taking pictures is generally an active undertaking, listening to music not. I don’t expect to see similar functionality or workflows in camera and a music player.

Exactly, my point.

No one. :smiley:

The OP of this thread wanted complaints about Roon’s usability.
This is my complaint and judging by the times I’ve seen noobs say their album tracks are playing out of order, it is a legitimate complaint.

Truly, I don’t understand the defense of the way Shuffle currently works.

The logic I’ve outlined in my option #3 will address the Shuffle problem without necessarily changing the way Shuffle currently works, and with minimal coding effort.

Two lines of code and a global variable, at worst…

Ahh, so it goes… :pensive:

As far as I can tell, and if I understand you correctly, that’s the current behavior.

  1. Set shuffle in the queue page OFF
    PLAY an album: it plays in order, afterward the setting remains OFF
    SHUFFLE an album, it plays shuffled, afterward the setting remains OFF

  2. Set shuffle in the queue page ON
    PLAY an album, it plays shuffled, afterward the setting remains ON
    SHUFFLE an album, it plays shuffled, afterward the setting remains ON

So in effect, there are two settings, one on the queue page and one pertaining to the current action, with separate states, and they do not affect one another.
If at least one is on, the album plays shuffled.

Anders, are you having a bad day? I feel we’re having a failure to communicate.:laughing:

I want to change the way Shuffle works when it’s set on the Queue page.

If it’s set on the Queue page it remains in effect for the next time a queue is started.
That’s what screws everyone up when they complain about the album tracks playing out of order.

If the state of the Queue is saved before the queue play is initiated and restored when the queue ends, i.e. the message about '“Nothing playing, Go find something to play” (sic) is displayed, then Shuffle is no longer persistent and it will return to what was in effect before the current queue started. Whether Shuffle was set on or not for that queue is irrelevant.

As for as your suggestion to initiate Shuffle from the album page, that will work if one is dealing with only one album, but for multiple albums to be selected then, as I’ve said, that will overlay any queue that is currently playing with the last album where Shuffle was selected from its album page. Probably not what is wanted. .

At this point, I’m going to let my prior posts in this thread speak for themselves. :sunglasses:

Where did the previous state come from?

The previous state is whatever the state of the Shuffle indicator, on the Queue screen, is before a particular queue is started. That should be saved when a new queue is started and restored when the queue has ended.

In this manner, when Shuffle is turned ON or even OFF for a particular queue, that doesn’t persist for any queues after that. The Shuffle indicate reverts to what it was, either ON or OFF, prior to it having been set for the ‘current’ queue.

Yes, I understand you don’t want the state that I set in the queue to be saved when the queue ends.
So I wonder, how could there be a previous state that should be restored?

It seems to me that you change the shuffle state to be non-persistent, and abandon the possibility of persistent shuffle state. No?

That may be a worthwhile change. But I think it’s just another example of making a choice and abandoning the other option. In Volvos, the seat warmer persists (Swedes think you turn it on in October and turn it off in May), in Mercedes it is turns off when the car is warmed up.

Do you have a richer behavior in mind?

You don’t ever want a persistent state.

What you want is a state where the Shuffle indicator’s Default state is either ON or OFF.

That Default state is the state that the indicator is returned to when the queue has ended, regardless of what an interim Shuffle state has been. The Default state is saved in a hold when a new queue is started and restored when that queue has ended.

One can set a new Default state of the indicator to be either ON or OFF. A default state for the Shuffle indicator is defined by setting the indicator to be either ON or OFF when the queue is empty.

But all this was covered in my original post…

BTW - Not sure what all the camera and seat warmer references are all about.