Roon doubles a title after deleting disc 1 of a two disc set album

Hello,
I have discovered a mysterious phenomen when deleting all tiitles of disc 1 out of a formerly two disc set album.
Having 2 discs available Roon identified my album properly and all titles were arranged in correct order.

However, after deleting all titles of disc 1 set I get the last title of the remaining disc 2 set DOUBLED (see Roon screenshot attached). But of course, the corresponding title file exists only ONCE (see explorer screenshot attached).
Any ideas what went wrong???

Roon-2

… had that too, a few times!

After deleting something in roon you are probably going to have to “hamburger -> settings -> library - clean up library”.

After deleting something partially like this you may have to instead move the entire album somewhere roon is not looking (like your desktop). Then clean up your library and then re-import the partial album.

Curious though. Why are you deleting one of the discs?

To avoid the double entry, I move the album folder to the desktop and them delete the album in Roon. Then I do what needs done to the album from the desktop and then re-import it. Simples!

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I want to second this. If I am changing things, I do so outside of Roon’s watched folders. Roon will sense the changes you are doing and begins re-identification process before you have even finished making the changes which means it is identifying with potentially incomplete information.

Hi @KPB,

Thank you for your report here. I’m going to pass your report along to the team for further investigation. I’ll be sure to update you once I’ve received feedback from the team.

Thanks!

That’s right. Roon tries to re-identify the modified album, and it seems it will do this even before all modification processes are really finished.
Your proposal is the same hint as @Alan_McMillan gave but IMO Roon should be able to process album changes correctly when being done INSIDE Roon and with the tools that Roon provides.
What I simply did was to delete some files from disc1 using the “EDIT” button inside Roon. So, nothing should be wrong with such a procedure.
Doing modifications outside Roon only to beware of “Roon mistakes” seems the wrong approach in my view: it would be only a workaround. Roon developers should make it work “right” without any “bypass solutions” I guess…

Instead of working with playlists for every album or with a feature like “hide all the titles I do not like” I pefer to have only those songs inside an album that I really want to hear. So I can play the album as a container of songs I really like. No need to skip anything.
Maybe curious :smile: but everyone has its own procedures of dealing with his/her large music library…

Ok. Understood. Sounds like you do this a lot. In general do you still get an album notification when you do thus?

I do this sort of “album cleanup” for almost all of my songs and Roon tries to identify these “partial” albums as well as complete albums, a process that works most of the time. It seems that scanning the partial album for the first time will be OK but Roon has problems if something will be changed afterwards, even by using Roon built-in tools.

Splitting the same title into two identical "sub-"titles (as my screenshot showed) is a process I have no explanation for. The title concerned (i.e. the last one) has NOT changed in the meantime… so what makes it different from all the others?

When you say you are “deleting” files, are you actually going through the DELETE process which deletes the physical files from your hard drive?

Yes. I use Roon’s EDIT->DELETE menu to delete the file physically.
BTW: I’m not aware of a Roon feature to remove the file from Roon’s database only thereby preserving its physical integrity…

Not directly. You can split an album up, by removing the tracks from the main album which will create a new album and then hiding the new album of unwanted tracks. That way if you ever decided you wanted one of the unwanted tracks you could just move it over to the un-hidden album. But, if your way works for you. :smiley:

Hi @KPB,

Is there any chance that you have this media elsewhere without disc one deleted that you could share with us for testing purposes?

Ideally, you can zip up the entire folder and send me private message containing a shared dropbox link. If you don’t have Dropbox or need another way to send the media, just let me know.

I have this media still available because it is a 2-disc CD I had ripped.
So I will restore the state before deleting, try to repeate the steps I did and see if I can reproduce the Roon-doubled-title problem. Will let you know about the progress and - in case of success - try to use dropbox to share the files…

Hi support team,
I deleted the whole album outside Roon and re-imported it in its original 2 disc version.
Then, trying to delete the titles of disc 1 with Roon’s “Edit->Delete title” feature a couple of mystic things happened:

  • “DELETE” removed the title from my physical hard disc and from Roon but only for the first time

  • Using “EDIT->DELETE” a second and third time did NOT remove the title from Roon but only from hard disc, i.e., the title was still presented by Roon’s album/titles screen

  • The LAST title was presented 4 times, i.e., not only DOUBLED as described in my previous post - but it was the same title, being on hard disc only once of course.

So I decided to look at Roon’s library cleanup function:
In the first place there were 180 deleted files to be “cleaned up”
I guess this was the root cause for all the things that happened to my album.

After performing a “Cleanup library”
Roon-Library-Cleanup
the album was presented correctly.

So my conclusion is: Although Roon is telling me that the library cleanup is mainly to increase performance it seems that there is even more: Without doing a ‘cleanup library’ now and then Roon does not function properly.

The text that belongs to the cleanup function (see screenshot above) is quite relaxed as far as “re-importing files” is concerned: “it may be useful”…
IMO is should be noted that it is necessary(!) to get correct results displayed by Roon…

I wonder, is your music stored on a NAS? Sometimes, some NASes don’t always report the state of the storage correctly. This might be a cause of the issue.

You are right: All my music is stored on a QNAP NAS called “HS-251+” running the latest firmware!
Does this mean I have to MANUALLY initiate a “Library clean-up” as soon as the Roon results displayed do not correspond to the ones expected (e…g., after seeing “doubled entries” etc.) ???

Is there a chance that Roon can trigger cleanups by itself if NAS network storage is involved during my album/title modifications?

Hi @KPB,

Thanks for the test and confirming that you were able to replicate the behavior. If possible we are hoping that you can share the album with us via Dropbox. I’ll pass the album along to the team so they can take a closer look at the behavior you’re reporting.

Hi support team,
my test was not a replication of the behaviour I had posted together with corresponding screen shots.
The main difference is: Before trying to do the test I used Roon’s “Cleanup library function” that cleaned up 180 files. After that I have tried to reproduce the duplication - or even multiplcation - of identical files presented by Roon’s “album with titles view”. However, since I did this “Library cleanup” I was not able to see the same phenomen again.
Maybe - as @Geoff_Coupe said in a post above - my NAS may be one reason - perhaps reporting not the real state of files deleted. However, even with duplicated files in Roon’s display - the Windows explorer did show only ONE NAS file. So at least the explorer had a correct picture of the NAS file state.

If I will see such a problem again in the near future I will then try to capture the current state - WIHOUT doing a cleanup before :grinning: - and maybe I can then send you more accurate information together with the corresponding music files.
For now, I’m just a victim of the so called demonstration effect…