Roon on NAS
(Synology 923+ with 36 MB RAM and Roon Core on 500 MB NVME)
Networking Gear & Setup Details
Network configuration: router (AVM Fritzbox 7590) > cat8 > switch LHY SW-10 > SFP (not SFP+) SM LC-LC OF > Hifi Rose RS130 > PS Audio DS DAC MK2 (no WI-FI)
Connected Audio Devices
The Hifi Rose RS130 and PS Audio DS DAC MK2 are connected through an AudioQuest Dragon 0.6m I2S interconnect
Number of Tracks in Library
About 140,000 tracks
Description of Issue
I bought the Hifi Rose RS130 streamer prior to Roon finalizing it’s certification and were under the assumption all things Roon would be running smoothly. However, I’m experiencing the following setbacks when wanting to play higher res files:
DSD files higher than DSD64 are being downsampled
PCM files higher than 24/192 are being downsampled
Both by Roon before feeding them to the streamer. This is seen in the Roon app, on the streamer. On the dac and when trying to play DSD256, the screen is sometimes showing consecutively and continuously: DSD256 - 705.6/01 - 705.6/24. Other times, it just shows the resolution Roon’s providing.
The result is indifferent from selecting native DSD, DoP or even DSD to PCM on the RS130.
BTW, in Roon’s device setup DSD isn’t shown and the max sample rate is 192 kHz and the max bits per sample is 32 (see images below).
Strangely, this doesn´t happen playing the same files using a USB cable, instead of the I2S.
When using the I2S and playing the same files using Rose’s own app, they are played in their native (mostly DSD256) res. So, it’s neither the streamer, nor the dac.
I’ve also double checked using an alternative streamer: the PS Audio AirLens, which recently also was Roon certified. Connecting AirLens and dac was done using the same I2S cable, as well as using Roon and other software. IMO, this proofs the issue lies in how Roon and the RS130 are working together.
What I can´t oversee is, is it something with my device specifically or something that has been overlooked during the certification process?
Anyway, I´d still have Roon and the Rose streamer to work as expected. Unless there’s something silly that I’ve overlooked, I’m kindly asking Roon staff to step in and investigate this issue and hopefully promptly come up with a solution shortly.
Feel free to ask more specifics, in case you’re so required. Thanks!
Have you contacted Rose and discussed their implementation. I2S is not a standard. Roon queries that DAC as to what it can carry over the connection and does accordingly. So, the Rose is telling Roon over that connection DSD64 is the highest it can carry. Like a lot of Android phones, (which is what RoseOS is based on), Roon will do some down conversion first. So, this is probably what is happening.
Also, you might inquire what happens internally in the ROSE to DSD. Looking at the Signal Path you see that the Rose is doing a DoP conversion after it is getting the feed from Roon. Do you see that DoP conversion in the Signal Path if you connect via USB? [Answered from forum links below, it seems that there is only a DoP connection to Rose even if native is chosen in the dropdown]
Okay so one answer from the ROSE forum is
RS150 does not support Native DSD in Roon Ready mode, only DoP mode.
So even if the setting is set to Native DSD, playback is done in DoP mode.
Thanks for your extensive reply, Rugby!
I will also contact Rose, but please bare with me to sort a few things out first. I will investigate on your suggestions:
For I2S there are two options provided on the Rose. Only one of them works and that’s the PS Audio I2S Standard. Their pin layout is used by Rose as type A and applicable to my dac.
The streamer is capable of streaming up to DSD512 and is doing up to DSD256 with I2S in my dac’s case while not using Roon, so the OS is not at play.
What we’re curious for is to find out why Rose is telling Roon (and only Roon!) (or perhaps Roon understanding Rose) that DSD64 is the max. Mind you: on I2S, not on USB…
Your first example from the Rose forum is about the RS150 and 2 years old. I have a different device. The second example is for another (unspecified) device, a year old, but the issue Indeed seems familiar. As implicitly stated above, it’s not that the RS130 cannot process DSD256 (in my dac’s case), it just won’t over I2S in Roon.
My point querying with Roon support is, that mentioned issues must have most likely surfaced during the Roon certification process (?)!
At least, I expect a certifying body to investigate the presented device on delivering its advocated properties. And Roon claims to do this thoroughly.
Presented issue would therefore be a reason to withhold certification IMO, until solved. Now it negatively effects the user experience and that’s not doing good to anyone.
My kind request is to pass this issue to Roon technical staff and have them have a thorough look.
Roon certification doesn’t mean that any particular spec on the equipment is included. It just means that for a mutually agreed set or sub-set of specifications that RAAT will be used. Roon tested, Chromecast, usb, airplay also doesn’t guarantee a spec.
Personally I think it’s up to the manufacturer to state what the agreed spec was.
Thanks for replying! Could you please substantiate this as fact, or is it your opinion?
Even if a fact, in who’s interest would this be? The result is a lack of transparency, or managing expectations. This may put up a nice show at first glance, but shortly thereafter a big disappointment for all involved. Firstly, for the customer, secondly for the companies that have to deal with unsatisfied and potentially leaving customers. This is obvious, as it is obviously easily preventable, by companies doing the right thing.
It would be a good thing for a Roon staff member to officially confirm their stance in the matter.
It’s a matter of fact. The manufacturer and Roon after what specifications will be exposed in Roon.
This doesn’t necessarily equate to the maximum theoretical for the equipment.
Some equipment does, some does not.
Right. Well… that just seems silly.
However, it’s not something for the two of us to argue about, while outside our span of control, but rather for Roon to (re)confirm.
Have a nice weekend!
Clearly the capabilities of devices differ, so not everything that is Roon Ready can support exactly the same stuff. It’s up to the manufacturer to have correct specification tables just like for all other protocols they support
I believe your last sentence is relevant, as the device itself is clearly capable: it will require a concise exchange of I2S specification table. Nothing more, nothing less. If so, it’s a simple case of a software update to sort this out. I’m not quite sure, if only on the side of Rose, or also on Roon’s. Let’s leave that to them.
Maybe they can change it, but I meant simply that if there are some limitations then it’s up to the manufacturer to list it correctly on their website in the specs, just like for every other input
I don’t recall one case like this were Roon is the cause it’s the manufacturers RAAT implementation generally. Roon just acts on what it gets back from any device.
Some limitations are for good reasons others oversights. My DAP can operate at a higher DSD rate than Roon allows but it can only do this in pure DAC mode, however over network or local playback it’s limited to a lower rate. I would reach out to HifiRose as suggested as it’s their device and they will be able to let you know. You might be waiting a while for Roon to answer if they do at all.
Thanks for your reply!
Your response is similar to that of Suedkiez, which I forwarded on the Rose forum. I’m still waiting for their reply.
Like I said: when retrouvons the same dsd256 file with the Rose app dsd256 is played, with Roon it is downsampled to dsd64. So, likely it’s the handshake that’s amiss. I’ll continue pushing.
