Roon + DSP + Multichannel DAC w/ Active Loudspeakers

Audio Gear Talk
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Hi all… The wisdom and support of this community is incredible. I’ve done hours of reading on these forums, and could use some guidance here, as I haven’t seen these issues all woven together in a single post.

Working backwards from the transducers:

I have a bi-amp’ed 2-way loudspeaker.
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I’m using Acourate to create filters for my loudspeakers, based on copious measurements. I want to load these filters into Roon, which is possible, correct?.
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The speakers are powered by Hypex amps, with an attenuator pad on the input of the high frequency amp, because it drives a very efficient horn.
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The amps are fed via a multichannel DAC with balanced outputs.
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The DAC is fed via the network, either Ethernet or Fiber. (I don’t want to use USB, obviously.)
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The network is fed via a ROCK-based core-i7 NUC (extra horsepower for the DSP).
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My main source of music will be Tidal Hifi, controlled via a tablet.

OK!

My questions:

  1. Is the above a logical signal path? I’m switching over from the analog world, and after so much reading I both feel like I understand this new digital world, and that I don’t get it (yet).

  2. Which multichannel DAC do you recommend? Various pricepoints… under $5k, under $10k. I’ve browsed the Roon Ready Network Devices list… not many multichannel ones in there I’ve seen so far.

  3. A unit like the MERGING+PLAYER lacks the CPU horsepower to handle the DSP filters, correct? Hence the need for the NUC as a separate device.

  4. Any other changes or recommendations?

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Another q:

How does the NUC “feed” the network? The MERGING+PLAYER uses Ravenna.

Can Roon on a ROCK stream to the MERGING+PLAYER?

Would the PC that runs Roon need some kind of Ravenna PCI card?

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I’m looking to use a networked DAC,and hoping I can do it with an NUC + ROCK, but can’t find any info on that here.

The DAC’s I’ve looked at use Ravenna. Is it possible to do this under ROCK right now?

If it’s not possible, my options are to use Roon under Windows or OSX and use the Ravenna driver for those platforms, correct?

Is there any other way to work with a networked DAC using ROCK?

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ROCK does not include a Ravenna driver, so that’s not currently possible.

Are you looking at the NADAC or something else?

You could also keep your core on ROCK and use Roon Bridge on a Windows or Mac to speak to the Ravenna driver.

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Thanks for the reply.

Are you looking at the NADAC or something else?

I’m open to anything, really. Is there any networked multichannel DAC that ROCK can talk directly to?

You could also keep your core on ROCK and use Roon Bridge on a Windows or Mac to speak to the Ravenna driver.

What would be the benefit of doing this? Instead of just running Windows on the NUC, or using a Mac Mini. (Apart from the cost factor.)

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Personally I am using a super cheap MSI Cubi Celeron based NUC like form factor with an upgraded Win7-10Home install on it as a bridge…thats all it does. cheaper than a MacMini and supports more audio drivers like ASIO etc for DSD enabled platforms - in my case an OPPO HA-1

I also run a couple of MacMini Roon Bridge setups as I had older 2010 vintage Minis that were sitting idle.

Im not sure of other more recent NUC like devices for Windows but this works well for me.

I run ROCK and like its pretty much hands off OS - unlike windows which likes to update all the time. I have run both Windows and MAC versions of Roon/Roon Server too.

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exaSound PlayPoint+e38 is Roon Ready–speaks RAAT natively, so no issues there.

Trinnov Altitude32 is Roon Ready–speaks RAAT natively, so no issues there.

Merging’s NADAC PLAYER has a NUC inside running Roon OS (so same software stack as ROCK) and it also speaks RAAT. You could target it from an external core, or just use the one built-in.

The “turnkey” qualites of ROCK/RoonOS are the main benefit. No forced software updates. No other stuff going on to get in the way. No user interface creating costs at runtime. RoonOS stuff (including ROCK) behaves like an appliance.

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Thanks. I started a thread over in Audio Products that brings up the other q’s I have around this. I’ll restate a couple here if that’s easier…

If I’m loading a fair amount of filters into Roon’s DSP, I need a beefier CPU than something like the NADAC PLAYER has, correct?

How do you recommend applying FIR filters, if not on a computer with a faster CPU?

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You only need a beefier CPU where you are running the CORE…on ROCK that is the NUC… but…and its a BIG BUT - depending on how many DSP options and streams using them concurrently you “might” still run out of puff with the best NUC spec at this point in time.

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I merged the threads. Going to answer it all here.

Is the above a logical signal path? I’m switching over from the analog world, and after so much reading I both feel like I understand this new digital world, and that I don’t get it (yet).

Yes

Which multichannel DAC do you recommend? Various pricepoints… under $5k, under $10k. I’ve browsed the Roon Ready Network Devices list… not many multichannel ones in there I’ve seen so far.

Under $10k, exaSound. $10k+ NADAC+PLAYER or Trinnov Altitude32.

I have spent more time with exaSound and NADAC+PLAYER than Trinnov. I think Trinnov is overkill for your application anyways. I would be happy with either in this application. They are both based on flagship ESS DACs, and sound quite similar.

A unit like the MERGING+PLAYER lacks the CPU horsepower to handle the DSP filters, correct? Hence the need for the NUC as a separate device.

Generally, it’s DSD sampling rates (or upsampling from PCM to DSD) that pushes the CPU requirements up. Running acourate filters on TIDAL content, or even high-res PCM content, in a 4ch digital XO arrangement like you describe is easily in reach of the i3 NUC in the NADAC+PLAYER.

There are no capabilities lost by using the NADAC+PLAYER first as-is, then considering an upgraded core later if DSP requirements become too heavy. Everything will work the same way. Make a backup on the NADAC+PLAYER, restore it on the new core, and proceed from there.

How does the NUC “feed” the network? The MERGING+PLAYER uses Ravenna.

The MERGING+PLAYER supports RAAT directly, and the Roon Core running on any platform speaks RAAT natively, so no issues there.

Can Roon on a ROCK stream to the MERGING+PLAYER?

Yes, via RAAT, same way that the built-in NUC in the MERGING+PLAYER does.

Would the PC that runs Roon need some kind of Ravenna PCI card?

Nope. If you run Roon on a PC (Windows) or Mac, you just need Merging’s driver to feed a NADAC or NADAC+PLAYER.

Any other changes or recommendations?

No–but your setup is a lot like what I want to do in my living room if I ever find the time. I want to build a pair of 3-way speakers (probably using a published design–I am no speaker designer, but my cabinetmaking is solid) and then do the crossovers myself.

I am almost decided on driving them with Hypex modules. I’m replacing Meridian DSP7200s…which are incredible sounding but obsolete so I’d better do a good job. I’m not going to match their performance without digital crossovers + time domain correction, so I’m stuck doing this crazy stuff.

What Hypex stuff are you using? What are your speakers?

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@brian maybe you should look at the www.linkwitzlab.com LX521.4 speakers if something in the active speakers space might suit… sorry for the OT

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Hah. I’m not brave enough to propose those to the planning committee, unfortunately. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Yes some of those swmbo might find them objectionable…I have the Orion in my lounge and the LX521 in my mancave but she respects the superiority of the LX521 and ushers house guests up for a session - so it’s not all bad hahahaha

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or these … time domain adjustable to 5 millionths of a second for any installation (or so it says :face_with_raised_eyebrow:) …

https://www.wilsonaudio.com/products/wamm

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Dear god - they look like monsters that have escaped from Doctor Who. I’m not sure that the advertising copy gives me the warm and fuzzies either: “plumbing new depths” is not generally seen as a positive thing…

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Had the same reaction - and chuckled too at the ‘plumbing the depths’ section. Think that if I had these (unlikely, only 70 being made and $685,000 per pair) that, if I closed my eyes whilst listening, they might shuffle forward and attack!

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I’m an OEM so I use the NC-MP line of amps, and they’re top notch. Hypex is also working on a line of Fusion Amps which will make powered speakers even easier. Hypex is so good at what they do.

I’ll be publishing more of what I make soon. I’m wrapping up a multiyear R&D jaunt, excited to finally have some finished products! For now, a small splash page:

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@brian

I am very happy with the amps I bought from InternetOfMusic - they use NC-MP modules.

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A bit harsh, are we? :slight_smile:

I gladly take Meridian’s 96/24 over most ‘modern’ high digit DACs. When you are ready to obsolete them, I’ll gladly pay for shipping. :wink:

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