This is quite on point. Now that Roon requires Internet for everything the round trip time to the instance of the Roon elements in the cloud including the processing time at that point is quite relevant to end user apparent performance. Factors will most likely be where you are situated vs the Roon instance as well as whether Roon adequately resources those instances for whatever it’s doing. They used to get much of the processing for “free”, actually you paid for it by running hardware, now they are paying for it in the cloud or more accurately, you are via increased subs.
I can no longer remember which ones I split into CD’s, which ones I split into sections and which ones I left as is. I don’t know if there is an easy way of finding out. @zenit specifically mentioned only the Mozart 225 as causing the roon servers problems but he did say there were others. Maybe he can open up logging on your core and tell you which boxes you should split?
I think several large boxes benefit from splitting into sections regardless of roon performance and can be identified that way. A lot easier to navigate. It is not very systematic but if you have the Furtwangler Legacy, that splits nicely into chunks. Other ones are the DG Beethoven Complete, the DG Brahms Complete and the Hänssler Bach Complete. I have a very long way to go with the Hyperion Liszt (Howard) but so far it splits nicely.
The Howard Liszt is easy , they are all individual Cd Or 2- 3 sets. As is Hanssler Bach
Bulk reset the CD# to 1 and reimport , obviously the bigger sets get the right no. There aren’t many
Beethoven and Brahms are already split into small sub sets Brahms is on 57 anyway
My gut feeling is <50 isn’t a problem , I have yet to test that feeling
EDIT : Make that 10 or less , 10 is uncomfortably slow
Mozart 225 is the single biggest box I know of , most boxes that big are logically split like Karajan into years or Beethoven into sub genres. I need to think now what is my biggest remaining box
The big issue on say 225 is how you get all the instances of a composition that may be in 2 or more sub sets with Period / Legendary and Normal. same for Beethoven 250 and Bach 333 where the sub sets are not genre specific . I guess the Composition View then filter by 225
Skinning cats is easy
Ethernet rather than Wifi cured all my problems.
I also operate roon from a rural site with 20/4 and 20ms and there is no prospect of improving these numbers.
Roon works fine now that I have a roon-specified ROCK running the show - previously running from a slower machine I had endless problems with roon hanging. It would be nice to have a roon option to “run 100% locally without internet connection” at times when the net connection is unavailable. Surely most of us can live without search and only use our local library for extended periods.
I note that streaming netflix works fine too despite the low BW.
Roon may become more demanding with each update in terms of hardware.
Neither do I, still.
The following might be interesting for you:
Merry Christmas to all of you!
No, not particularly. I would like a statement from Roon what they deem sufficient for a proper Roon experience.
Let’s reiterate; I’m am NOT experiencing dropouts, delays or any other disturbance. My network is fine, thank you!
I am, however, having a worse experience when utilizing the Roon GUI, and in generl the parts of it that are related to cloud based functions, such as “New Albums for you”, Search “hints” and other similar functions.
Point is, when you make achitectural decisions. such as relocation parts of the business logic to the cloud, the factors of this integration matters.
So, damnit, what are the requirements?
It’s a bit of a weird question. I am not Roon but I can tell you with certainty that your “100Mbps/100Mbps fibre optic WAN access, with general response times less than 10ms” is easily better than the requirements.
There you go, you have a reference figure obviously? Please tell…
Is a shaky 3G cellular okay for being able to find my albums in my local library? (Which in itself is a red herring) Whats the requirement for Search to be able to populate the “hints” before i am able to write “led zeppelin” and press enter? I can tell you that i am typing faster than my “Roon” is thinking right now…
What is the expected latency before “Recommended albums for you” is populated and i am able to scroll downwards on the Home screen?
If you percieve these questions as weird, you’re likely not in the IT business, dealing with pro’s and con’s of cloud based computing. I am…
Your not alone Mikael it’s very much slower and the quick jump is no longer quick in any shape or form. It also doesn’t even show up now until you stop typing where before it would start to populate and change as you added more characters.
I don’t believe our bandwidth has anything to do with it, it’s their infrastructure and code that’s the issue in my opinion it’s the only thing that changed.
As mentioned, I have 300/30 with usually ~17 ms and not seeing any responsiveness problems, so if you do it’s most likely not caused by your much better nominal values.
From Roon’s perspective it probably doesn’t make much sense to go into the small details of this in official statements. They have to make sure that it works with the connection speeds of regular home accounts, or the problems would be endless
I am in the IT business, thanks. Not so much with cloud though. The questions your asked now in the post where this quote comes from are not weird but very reasonable. But as others with slower internet have no problems they are not caused by the nominal speeds, so what I found a bit weird was insisting on an official statement about required speeds
It makes sense , for the algorithm in question to only run on heavy duty hardware in the cloud means that it must be quite processor heavy or we could run it each on our own cores.
The data up and down hopefully is trivial and the time taken is in processingthe request and not transferring the request and result
I suppose we will never know …
For reference my internet connection gives me no problems, latency or stuttering and you can see is quite modest compared to some quoted above
You are reading me correct, i’m not specifically interested in what speed is required, as i suppose you and i are sufficiently equipped on that front.
The core of the question is, how can Roon (and it’s customer base) maintain a quick, smooth and pleasant experience while migrating parts of the business logic to the cloud.
One of the architectural demands to enable this move, is a definition of required connectivity.
I am sure, the Roon guys are well aware of these limitations though, and i don’t think it would be detrimental to their business to elaborate.
There’s a description here:
I don’t, either, I just think it wouldn’t help them much. It has to just work with whatever reasonable ISP contracts the users have, or the endless ARC threads will be comparatively a walk in the park
Unless Roon have moved their hosting (or added a POP in Europe) that’s a bit strange.
I see from your profile you are in Berlin and Roon is hosted (AFAIK) by Fastly in California. Based on distance alone you shouldn’t be getting response times less than 90mS
Maybe (though are we sure there is no CDN with servers elsewhere?), but I don’t think I would notice a lag of 0.09 seconds (or two, three times that) when searching. Maybe I’m just not sensitive to that / am not expecting real-time. Can’t try right now because I’m on a train using ARC over 4G and it’s what I’d expect. (It takes about 1-2 seconds from writing a search term to getting the result. Though there are some issues were correct terms yield no results)
Looking at logs the website (.roonlabs.com) is in California but the compute (.roonlabs.net) is hosted by Google (in the US)
I get a fairly stable 105mS response from that but looking at logs it seems to vary in the processing of requests i.e post or get requests vary between 480mS and 30000mS. I haven’t found anything faster than 480mS so far.
I’d say that any latency people are seeing is down to congestion or contention in the compute platform and not an ISP or home network/PC issue.
I get 50-70 ms ping response from roonlabs.net even from my phone on the train in Austria (data roaming with my German Vodafone mobile plan) with 4G.
Roon data requests that involve processing on the server of course would need more time