Roon-ready dac-less endpoint streamer recommendations

I have two Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultras which work great via Ethernet but I purchased these devices before I learned about the microRendu, of which I also have two. The microRendu costs much less the Stream Box, even with the power supply, but is Ethernet only. Yes I know that it is basically a fancy raspberry Pi but it is pretty much plug and play and is Roon Ready (as is the Stream Box). Worth looking into and I would recommend it over the Stream Box.

Please note that both the Stream Box and the microRendu have only USB output and require a DAC with USB input.

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thanks for the first-hand advice. for now i’m going to live with my mac mini running roon client as an endpoint. i have no reason to be unhappy with its sonic characteristics, and it’s more convenient to be able to share the mac screen to any computer on the network rather than go through the browser to a proprietary gui such as sonic-orbiter or the stream-box config. as for electrical noise or subpar performance of the mac USB bus, i hope that’s taken care of by a) use of an audioquest FMJ jitterbug (possibly snake-oil, but if so, an inexpensive brand thereof) and b) a high quality modern dac. i’m still basically a subjectivist w.r.t. audio, but i’m inclined to believe the skeptics on this subject.

Last year I tried out a Project Streambox S2 Ultra connected to the USB input on my integrated amplifier and it provided a significant improvement in sound over an Auralic Aries Mini connected to the same USB input. Unfortunately, the Streambox had a hard time staying connected to the DAC in the amplifier so I sent it back.

An Allo USBridge sounded pretty much the same as the Aries Mini.

I suspect that there might have been an issue with the USB implementation on my amp that the circuitry in the Streambox cleaned up.

I have been on a journey over the last 3 or 4 years to to achieve a high quality digital sound system. After some research, I chose the Auralic Altair. My speakers are a single driver horn design that I “tripped over” in my home city, where they are designed. They are truly wonderful. These are driven by English Graham Slee amps. I was clear the analog bits got the job done amazingly well. About 18 months into my journey, I listened to a very high quality analog system. There were things I didn’t like about it but the sound staging was phenomenal and I realised my system wasn’t even close. This led me to examine the criticality of precision timing and really high quality DSP in a digital music system. This has led me to install all 4 boxes that make up the Auralic “G2.1” series. I started with the Vega G2.1 DAC, which was a serious step-up in quality. The next was the Leo GX.1 Master Clock. The difference this precision clock made was quite stunning. Once heard, you cannot unhear this difference. I installed it on a trial. It was not going back. The final step was the Aries Streamer and Sirius Upsampler, which delivers DSD 512 to the Vega, I was again stunned by the difference. It is as if the musicians are in the room. I literally wept at the profound quality of the sound. So, those boxes haven’t left, either. I share this because I do not believe you can get anywhere near what this highly optimised digital processing sound path can achieve using “off the shelf” bits. This stuff is not cheap but if you able to withstand the budget hit, try it or similar for yourself. Auralic deliver but there may be others. For completeness, I run Roon on a NUC. I tried the Roon DSP for upsampling before adding the Sirius and turned it off because it made things much worse than what the Vega could do for itself.

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It is unlikely that you would experience noticeably better audio quality through a dedicated streaming player than through your Mac Mini (I’ve tried). The reason I use my Project StreamBox S2 Digital is simply that (1) I have it, and (2) it is fanless. If the fan on your Mac Mini doesn’t bother you (the fan of my Roon Core is very loud, but then it is located in another room where I don’t hear it), then you should be fine.
[Edit]
I read Richard_Presser’s comments, which are interesting, but to my mind go way beyond your question. Your question as I understand it is whether spending a few hundred dollars on a streaming player would improve the quality of your audio. Probably not. But would spending 20k dollars make a difference? Definitely!
That said, I did invest some extra money in good cables. There a few hundred dollars are a very good investment, but you may already know that.

I was going to get an Aries Mini, but it was discontinued around that time, so I bought the StreamBox. I’m glad I did now, in light of what you say. My Questyle DAC has no issues at all with any input.

The Stream Box is basically a fancy raspberry Pi as well!

Golden sound has released a really interesting review of how streamers objectively improve sound output of a very competent dac (holo audio spring)

It may not have been nervousa all along and perhaps their was some truth to claims of hearing a difference?

All these guys on the Web trying to make a few advertising dollars from their videos… they have to talk about something. They don’t want the whole audio nervosa industry to collapse, or they’d be out of an audience.

“A beefy gaming PC is a horrible device to have in audio chain…” You hear that a lot, but there’s no proof. Just some disproof.

“This video is not about … what makes a difference.” Good to know, but I already suspected.

The jitter bugaboo raises its bogus head again. “Don’t use optical from a PC … it’s so bad.” Depends on your audio card, of course. There are lots of crappy ones. And on your PC. And – why use optical?

“If you believe that anything under 120 dB is inaudible, just use USB with a Pi … and you’re fine.” Seems likely.

But in general, he seems to just be fooling around down in the noise floor. None of that is meaningful, is it?

“Electrical noise is the biggest enemy to an audio chain.” Really? How about bad recordings?

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I have the same question … but I’m looking for Coaxil output to my Hegel H390 :slight_smile:

I set up a NUC with ROCK and a posh USB cable straight into my dac. It’s more convenient than having to have the Mac on all the time and, according to Roon, the signal path is perfect. I’m not sure about improvements over your current system in terms of sound quality, but it’s a reasonably cost effective way of ‘optimising’ Roon and saving money on the unnecessary features of a streamer. I just miss a beautiful screen but I’m working on it!

I switched from a Mini to this Sonic Transporter i5… with the Optical setup from Sonore, … (it’s all Roon Ready) … best thing I ever did.

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Did you watch the same videos or where you typing the response before you watched?

Not sure I follow your objections to this video?

I was typing the post as I watched the video, Mark. My main objection is that he’s discussing things that don’t matter, things that are either avoidable or inaudible.

Look, I feel sorry for the folks who are trying to make a few bucks doing videos about audiophile issues. They can’t come right out and say that transparent sound reproduction is an essentially solved problem, because the folks with gadgetitis who love these videos would stop watching, and their advertising revenue would stop. So they tinker around with this amazing array of gadgets, few of which will make any audible difference, and review the barrage of new items available continuously. I don’t generally watch them.

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Hi Bill I bought the pi2 Aes and “tinkered with the power supply” I found a noticeable difference.

I don’t have enough technical expertise to explain why I think it works. I also have a pretty good working knowledge of bias and behavioural econmics so I recognise the red flag.

On the back of that what I would is that I also love wine and feel their are similarities here not in bias but in measuring things that are good subjectively.

Wine is not the sum total of acidity, sugar, alcohol and ph. Now this may become tenuous but DACs and streamers are not the sum total of jitter and “noise”.

I don’t believe that all wines that have the same characteristics mentioned above taste the same, much the same way as I don’t believe that all DACs that have above 120db s/n sound the same.

On both of these I could be wrong and I cannot prove I am right in any scrutible scientific sense that I could explain technically.

Believe it or not i have followed a pretty dogmatic data heavy profession using data everyday as the basis for recommendation or decision. But, wine and stereo reproduction to me have to be taken more subjectively as at least to me differences exist beyond what we have been able to measure thus far.

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Sure, all audio reproduction chains do not sound the same. Some (many?) have flaws which don’t allow them to accurately reproduce the sound. Some folks enjoy that! And all depend so heavily on the speakers and/or headphones one uses.

But the gadgets, by and large, are unnecessary to build a transparent set-up. I’d rather spend my time watching wine review videos than gadget review videos!

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Sure, all audio reproduction chains do not sound the same. Some (many?) have flaws which don’t allow them to accurately reproduce the sound. Some folks enjoy that! And all depend so heavily on the speakers and/or headphones one uses.

exactly right, with a few qualifications: all audio reproduction systems have flaws and “accurate reproduction” is a shibboleth. moreover, “transparency” on a crappy recording of a great performance is a curse to be overcome rather than a virtue to be sought.

since i initiated this thread, let me close out my participation by saying that i will continue, happily, to use my (dedicated) mac mini as a roon endpoint.

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+1 for Ropiee on Rpi4.

I have an 8 GB ram rpi model 4 connected via usb to a tone 2 pro with balanced output to a SMSL DA-9.

My internet connection on the pi is wireless, with an external usb wifi 5 antenna to help ensure good signal.

Stable and sounds fantastic. Never had an issue.

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I’m looking at both the Stream Box and the the mR as USB options into a Quad Va-One+ (for a variety of reasons, I’ve moved on from the Zen Stream). How would you characterize the sonic differences between the two?

In a word: none. Perhaps that’s due my objectivist leaning expectation bias at work.

The differences are more about price and functionality.

The Stream Box has both Wi-Fi and Ethernet, the microRendu is Ethernet only.

Both are Roon Ready and easy to set up.

Both have USB output and require that they be connected to a DAC (which is powered on) to be “seen” by Roon.

The Steam Box also has a HDMI output (which I haven’t tried) and BlueTooth (again which I haven’t tried).

The Stream Box requires a manual reset after a power interruption, a simple press of a front panel button.

On rare occasions the Steam Box will suddenly lose the digital signal when switching between sample rates, e.g. going from 16bit/44.1kHz to 24bit/96kHz, at which time it will reset itself and then play fine until the next little glitch, something that never happens with the microRendu.

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