Roon-ready dac-less endpoint streamer recommendations

I use REW and am by no means an expert. Some of the guides are quite easy to follow if you take your time and work through them stepwise.

The initial measurent is the easy part. Once you have the measurements, you can take your time with the rest of it and experiment with what sounds best to your ears in your room.

A simple way to try room correction is House Curve.

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Unfortunately, this option is not available to those of us who don’t use Apple phones and Tablets.

But maybe just a friend or colleague away. At least to give it a try.

they address the switch questions in an addendum to Michael Lavorgna’s review, linked above.

you seem unusually invested in persuading someone to not trust their ears.

the ability to return mine was a key factor in purchasing from Roon.

I don’t think it’s “unusual” to persuade someone not to trust their ears.

Ears are much less sensitive than actual measuring devices, and your hearing is HEAVILY influenced by bias, visual cues, etc.

I, for one, am MUCH more likely to trust measurements than my ears :man_shrugging: and am also on the side of streamers making no difference whatsoever in the audio chain if they are passing bits correctly.

I’ll go further and say NO parts of the audio chain make a difference in the final sound EXCEPT those that are actually responsible for producing analog output. Bits are bits.

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My investment is more about helping others not fall for the massive amounts of snake-oil hype that lubricates the audiophile markets.

But aside from that, it’s not the ears I wouldn’t trust, it’s the imagination. We hear both with our ears and that imagination, working together. That’s what makes music work – combining sonic impressions of particular arrangements of sound with imagination produces effects in the brain that we like or dislike. The fMRI studies of people listening to religious music are fascinating.

Unfortunately, we all have different imaginations. We all hear differently. There’s no reason someone else’s report on what they think they hear should influence anyone’s opinion, unless they have properly calculated or calibrated their own leanings to be similar to that of the reporter. Which is difficult, when the reporter is a stranger. What then is a seeker after enlightenment to do? The fallback is to rely on measurements and reasoning from first principles.

My discomfort with Silent Angel are more about the impression I get from their marketing. To me, they seem to be more focussed on things that don’t matter, like MQA or whether or not a power supply is “radar-grade”, than the things that do matter. Just my impression, of course, and others may imagine it differently.

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Makers of “audiophile” networking devices are heavily - and usually - invested in persuading everyone to trust something that has been proven to be quite limited and unreliable - our senses - so don’t find it unusual to push back. I usually do that, without being invested in any aspects of the industry.

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it’s not the networking device that is under discussion.

to some of us MQA certainly matters, as do power supplies.

What’s funny about this conversation is that I posted a similar message on audiosciencereview about how much I was enjoying the Vidar 2 versus my GaN400, and most folks responded that I shouldn’t trust my ears. Even though this was on the review of the Gan400 which showed it had some surprisingly high distortion for such an expensive component! If @woodford really likes the Silent Angel M1T, I think we can all accept that sometimes we just prefer x vs y.

I think we can all agree it’s important to be balanced. Some things, musical recording quality(!), speakers & room acoustics will have a greater impact than many other components in a system.

Thanks to this discussion, I realized that I was looking at the wrong component, I thought that after “upgrading” the latest Peachtree preDAC + GaN400 combo, I’d created an unbalanced system, that I needed better speakers or a better streamer etc. @Bill_Janssen link led me to this article which led me to ASR’s review of my GaN400

So am I deluding myself that the Vidar 2 and the GaN400 sound different?

I’m going to try and figure out an easy way to measure these in my system. I have a Yeti X microphone. Need to learn the software and figure out if I can do a reliable measurement without too many gotchas. I’m not at all experienced in this space and I see so many debates about the proper way to do measurements that this may not be a rabbit hole worth going down.

Next for my system:
To finish my original goal which was to upgrade from my old circa 2010 Sonos Connect via TOSLink to a new streamer that supports AirPlay + Spotify Connect + Roon transport that will give me volume control management via the remote app. The CA MXN10 doesn’t enable volume control via COAX, only if using the analog output.

So I’ve ordered the Wiim Pro Plus & a Raspberry Pi 4b 4GB and Flirc case to try these out and see what I think. I probably won’t try the M1T because I don’t think I want to invest $1200 into a streamer at this point, I’d rather buy a 2nd Vidar 2 and use them as mono blocks and bi-wire my speakers.

Again I appreciate the collective knowledge here on this forum. I’ve learned a ton and now my system is sounding much better. All we need now is for Roon to fix whatever terrible update they did in December that is making all my remotes (iPhone, iPad, Mac) timeout and not find the server!

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always trust your ears.

…and your wallet.

never trust anyone who tells you what you should hear.

Isn’t that the whole point of marketing? Telling people what they should hear? I agree – don’t trust them! As for trusting my wallet :rofl:, I think I’ll continue to go with my education, experience, and common sense, instead.

After all, every purchase has an opportunity cost, whether or not one is thinking of it at the time. Every dollar spent on audiophile nonsense is a dollar that at the extreme could have gone to Water Wells for Africa or World Vision or the Internet Archive.

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or libations.

REW can do pretty much anything one would want for DRC, but if you do not feel like learning all the intricacies, there are more commercial products that will basically do the same thing in a much easier way. E.g. I used Focus Fidelity and got pretty good results without spending too much time in it.

There is also HouseCurve, if you have an i-Device, which is pretty cheap and has a trial version, that you could try to see what can be done…

There is a rather valid argument that people making pricey networking devices that are alleged to do something a networking device simply can not do are not necessarily to be trusted. Especially when they are telling you to “trust your ears” and not any sort of objective reality.

Would not that also apply to people marketing fancy audiophile doodads?

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I trusted my ears.

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It does not matter, really. That ears by themselves can not be trusted has been demonstrated time and time again. Applies to anyone and everyone.

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Do whatever sounds best to you, but realize what you hear includes actual sound plus your own expectations and biases and is not necessarily real that anyone else can hear. In the end, it doesn’t matter. It’s what you think you hear that matters.

I agree 100%. I’ve always felt that way…but. As I’ve become aware of our various biases (expectoration, confirmation, overconfident, etc.) I’ve realized to take a step back and question myself. I think that is only healthy.

For people to state with absolute certainty that their ears are the final arbitrator always and every time, they are simply just fooling themselves. Which is fine, we all do it to some extent.

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