Roon Room Correction in the future?

Sounds interesting, but what is wrong with current convolution-based solutions? I think convolution works perfectly fine in Roon.

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It works ok but is a manual system. Automation would be a step forward.

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This would probably require some additional certified hardware like a UMik-1 from MiniDSP or some other USB microphone setup for measurements.

Regarding room correction, @brian / @joel etc., it would be fascinating to get your view on Sonos TruePlay as a concept:

a/ Whether wandering around waving an iPhone as opposed to a calibrated mic could possibly be effective, or is just a nice marketing gimmick.

b/ If the answer to a/ is yes, whether this kind of system might make it into Roon sometime? It would certainly open up room correction to a wider audience (including me) if so.

It can be effective if you keep the quality objectives modest. An iPhone could figure out something about the speaker distances to the listener position, learn something about relative level differences from the different speakers to the listening position, and learn something (not totally accurate) about the frequency response of the room.

I don’t think it will match the performance of a measurement done using a calibrated mic. Could it still be a useful product for some? Sure. Will this specific thing come to be? No-one knows the answer to that yet.

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Thanks for the answer. I have been considering getting a miniDSP UMIK-1, but they’re £120 in the UK. I’m not sure what magnitude of performance improvement it would bring to a modestly spec’d system.

My speakers are £500 Monitor Audio Bronze 5s, so spending 25% of their cost to calibrate may be excessive! On the other hand, there’s lots of material out there suggesting that rooms are the single biggest component of a music system’s response…

Being able to do something, even if not perfect, to gauge the kind of effect room calibration can have would be amazing. I suspect it would turn room calibration from something a tiny proportion would do to something almost everyone with an iPhone does overnight. Especially if this iOS app highlighted the capability on first launch.

Also, if anyone reading this lives near St Albans in the U.K. and has a calibration mic, can I borrow it? :wink:

Room treatment and DRC are the most significant Hi-Fi upgrades you can make. They’ll deliver more in terms of benefit than any amount of money spent on kit that is then used in an untreated, acoustically poor environment.

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That’s what I’m thinking, particularly as my room is an awkward shape, and the fact that my wife would not appreciate and my two young children would endanger speakers that are not tucked away has forced me to do … suboptimal … things with their positioning.

Room treatment not an option for the same reasons, which leaves DSP. I guess the other way to conceptualise (justify!) this is that £120 is the difference between Tidal high quality and Hi-Fi for a year, and will likely make many orders of magnitude difference to actual sound quality. Hmmm …

Although the placebo effect of that little purple light is strong, dammit :wink: (ducks). Despite that, I’m going to stick to my guns and am downgrading from Hi-Fi at the end of my free trial period (today, I think). All bragging rights gone. Though I will buy FLAC from Qobuz for anything I really like.

On the other hand, I was happy to pay for Roon - it’s fantastic and I’m listening to more music than I ever did as a result of its awesome UX. I definitely fall into the ‘use my system to listen to music’ camp rather than vice versa :slight_smile:

Tidal are still benefitting from their Roon partnership, as there’s no way I’d have switched streaming providers without it.

You might find some UK audiophiles willing to split the cost of a UMIK with you. It’s something that many people could share.

Anyone interested, let me know.

Or maybe I should just buy and and rent it out. Might be able to make my money back sometime :slight_smile:

@danny - forgive my ignorance, but is the room correction DSP you mention the same as convolution filters already in Roon, or something different that you’re working on?

convolution filters are just filters – they alter the audio stream in whatever way you want. it is the hammer.

room correction is the act of building a filter to compensate for the room. this is one of the things you can do with the hammer above.

With regard to the room correction conversation - many well respected posts on this forum and elsewhere state the benefits, which seem to be clearly established.

However, many of us lack the time\expertise\inclination to tackle this ourselves (and even if we did we’d always be wondering if we did it properly)

A while back I spent far more than I should have on what was at the time a stunning TV (Pioneer Kuro Plasma) I then paid to have it “ISF Calibrated” by an expert who had the required callibration kit. This felt like an extravagance at the time, but it milked the last drop of quality out of my purchase, which is still going strong seven years or so later.

My point is there is certainly a market (albeit niche) for hifi room calibration & room treatment expertise - I’m also usually UK based, so if anyone knows of someone who could provide these services for a fair price please shout!

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If you know any good live sound engineers, I’m sure for a reasonable fee they could nail it. They will also have a calibration mic to hand.

P.S. Another great reason to go to smaller Live gigs. You will meet a sound engineer there. Compliment them and see where it goes.

After having experianced the impact of room correction 2yrs ago, i will never again purchase an amp/device wh having a good room correction appliciation. And yes, you have to trust the ‘black box rc tool’ designed by the manufacturer, or become a sound engineer yourself.
IMO: Roon room correction would be a great leap forward.

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@danny : when you talk about Roon room correction being developed, do you mean hardware (such as miniDSP or DSPeaker), or simply software / DSP?

We are investigating a software solution. You will still need a mic.

This is super early so I have very little information to share and you shouldn’t hold your breath. We may never release anything in this space.

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This actually sounds Dirac-ish as that is the probably the only software solution the ‘average’ person can get good results with. Most other solutions have a ‘steep’ to ‘very steep’ learning curve.

Dirac is one of the solutions we are investigating for this project… and before the “please do dirac” posts start coming, please realize that this is early stages and there is much to consider on the technology side and the business side.

Just be patient… very patient.

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I wish speaker manufacturer can provide parameters to roonlabs, just like Audeze do, than plugged in measurement with calibrated microphone, doing in app measurement and calculation of room properties all inside ROON would be great, just like Devialet do with SAM(SAM still a lot more like impedance matching with Amplification) Till Now I have no regret for every pennies spent on ROON.