So after extensive testing, the result is… on identical hardware, Roon and Audirvana do indeed sound exactly the same. Which means my journey has brought me a full circle. I’m relieved, because I’m in the “bits is bits” crowd, and any other outcome would be troublesome. What I was hearing before was either imagined (I don’t think so) or down to the hardware difference (very possible).
6 Likes
Volume levels make an enormous difference , I have 2 inputs to my Dac and headphones, one is slightly louder and always sounds better until you drop the volume slightly to match the other then they sound the same
Not scientific but …
3 Likes
My DAC likes to receive a 2x upsampled signal. It consistently sounds better no matter the source if I upsample 2x.
Audirvana can do better upsampling but it’s not consistently better and I don’t understand upsampling well enough to explain why. For all the reasons people say not to upsample there are a few tracks, when using Audirvana, where I agree. Every once in a while Audirvana will sound a bit “off” or “digital” or “shrill”. When I upsample with Roon it sounds good and consistent no matter what I hit play on.
No upsampling? Maybe I give the edge to Audirvana but that signal path is very different. However, 2x upsample in Roon sounds better than no upsampling in Audirvana.
So, in my system… Audirvana can sound better but sometimes worse. Roon sounds good all the time. In the end… you listen to what makes you happy.
I can confirm this. I finally got my Devialet back to using AIR. The problem was that I forgot I had set a fixed IP in the config file so I could never see my Devialet in the LAN. Having this fixed, I went straight via Ethernet into the Devialet and used AIR for both, Roon and Audirvana. In this setup I was hard pressed to hear a difference.
I did perceive a difference between the two when going through the USBridge Signature and USB into the Devialet. Somehow, the USBridge seems to cause a difference between the two players. The issue is solved anyway as the USBridge broke yesterday after only a few months in use. Not a very good quality device from Allo.
It tought me to never change a nicely working system.
Happy Roon user again!
3 Likes
False! The usb connection is flawed from the start. Check out all the gadgets out on the market that try to make usb better. Been there, done that. I have had both the ps audio DS jr and now the DS sr and the network connection provides better SQ. I also use better quality Ethernet cables, and have a wired GB network, no WiFi. If you read about the DCS network board, they also say this is the preferred input over usb.
What kind of measurements? All signals can be measured and compared.
Measuring the noise floor says nothing about SQ, but curves could tell DACs apart.
I’m happy yours works for you. Mine was problematic and I ultimately got rid of it. Lots of gadgets to clean up the USB signal; I own several of those as well. Go over to the PS Audio forums and read the gripes on the bridge ii. Lots of users dumped them. Bridge ii is powered by a third party firmware company that Paul McGowan has little control over. I suggest you check out some of those threads and enlighten yourself. That’s part of why he’s developing Octave in house and under PS Audio’s control. Bridge ii had some very real issues. Took months and months to move past a bad firmware upgrade. I would agree USB has some issues, that’s why I convert USB to I2s via HDMI where possible. (although I’m not sure I can tell the difference from a jitter perspective 
).
.
But that doesn’t excuse the many problems the bridge ii has had with numerous users.
The PS Audio DirectStream Bridge II card sucks! I would much rather use a microRendu or ultraRendu feeding the DirectStream USB than the Bridge II card s that is a much better sounding solution.
I couldn’t sell mine fast enough…
1 Like
Well, check out all the ethernet gadgets that are storming into the market to “repair” your ethernet connection, that offcoarse was never designed for audio in the first place and now needs to be “fixed”. Ethernet is flawed form the start as well if you believe the hype.
Spdif wasn’t good enough, then usb was the wonderous fix, then usb wasn’t good enough, some time later usb was the root of all evil. Then ethernet was the cure for all. Now ethernet is not good enough by itself and needs to be “fixed” with $$$$ reclockers, cables and isolators. Tomorrow ethernet will be the evil and totally flawed (why else did it need to be fixed?) it is just a matter of time. There are even people who state that direct connection from the motherboard is the best way to go now, back to base one. Everybody is running in circles, just don’t believe the hype.
6 Likes
I have not had 1 issue with the bridge II card, maybe you were using flawed firmware. I did hear the original bridge card had issues.
I did some initial testing between usb and Ethernet and Ethernet sounded much better with other benefits. I used to have the usb tweaks that were popular as well as the best usb cable at the time. Some days of the other benefits are: no need to have a computer/music server in your audio room, no need to buy a music server, running Roon on your existing server works fine.
If I could run a 100ft I2S cable to the DS dac, I would try that but I won’t put a server in the audio room
Wait until your Golden Ears are shot with old age then you can stop worrying and listen Beethoven , he don’t seem to lose the plot 
1 Like
Yeah, sure, I used flawed firmware…give me a break.
The Bridge II card as a Roon endpoint sounds okay. Not great,…just okay. It does not sound as good as a discrete endpoint with a real clean USB signal, such as an ultraRendu, feeding the DirectStream’s USB input. Especially if you physically remove the Bridge II card from the DirectStream.
Even better is to add a Matrix SDIF 2 to the chain and use it to feed I2S to the DirectStream. Add HQPlayer into the mix if you want the best possible sound.
Oh, I would never consider not having a dedicated server running the Roon Core.
Well, the Audirvana 3.5 sounds better is mainly due to the built-in SoX algorithm. However, HQPlayer + Roon is a completely different setup. Some people still thinks HQP + Roon beats A+ 3.5, but to some other audiophiles, they prefer A+ 3.5 better (meaning more euphoric)!
Hope Roon could adopt the SoX upsampling algorithm too!
1 Like
Hi Alvin, I hear more than just more “Air”! My testing Track is “Carmen-Fantacy” by Annie-Sophie Mutter. in the very beginning 30 seconds, i hear very different “presentation”.
HQPlayer + Roon is a step above Roon RAAT. I like A+ on the desktop, and use Roon on the endpoints.
Hi All,
I have been using Roon for couple of years now. My current setup :
Roon core/server - Mac Air - USB using Totaldac Giga filter - Devialet 250 Expert - Nordost Frey Cables - Martin Logan Summitx
I have made subtle changes such as Roon then Total USB cable everything improved but I still felt it was missing something and if listening to Rock, fast instruments I felt the system was bit unforgiving.
But then I came across HQ player, Audirvanna and Amarra and during this lock down period all I have been doing is changing application. I did some blind fold tests and mostly Audirvanna was the preferred option.
Which is annoying as i really like roon GUI dont mind to invest in HQplayer but it still not close to Audirvanna or Amarra.
Any suggestion or inputs !!
1 Like
I went down almost the same path… my advice is don’t do anything too rational just yet, because my experience was that when I switched back - to my amazement - Roon and Audirvana sound exactly the same. I’ve no experience with HQplayer, because I’m too cheap to want to try it.
Hi, I have experienced the same, been running a Audirvana 30 day trial been working in my home office a lot due to lock down and found Roon almost unforgiving, harsh, especially on recordings that are not pristiine, while Audirvana is far more “Euphonic” if I can use a word, forgiving, and musical. Been a Roon user for close to 3 years. Audirvana UI is as primitive as hell compared to Roon, just wish I could close the gap in sound quality. Audirvana seems a more relaxing and enjoyable listen. I do not have the answer.
1 Like
Thanks Mike,
I have spent hours with this, I somehow struggle to enjoy songs like Innuendo by Queen, Ed Sheeran etc. its hard to explain but it was not engaging and confusing while listening and I used to blame the track. But then HQ player made reasonable impact but Audirvana made my feet tap. And it was the same case with the 2 other listeners. So wondering if there is any alternative way to connect HQplayer through UPNP/IP, as Devialet support ethernet and accurate filter settings of HQplayer which could make the difference.
BUT Audirvana’s Ui is not a patch on Roon and the iOS app seems to real issues staying connected
I bough a license and it sits there unused !!
Navigation is confused , no easy way to get at Classical stuff , An Artist is an artist
I tried it a few times and gave up 