I’ve been a roon user for around 3 years. In all this time I’ve used roon as my playback software streaming to an endpoint.
I use a Emmlabs DV2 Dac + NS1 Network endpoint.
Recently I got a CD Transport into my setup it has a glass optical out and I connected it to my DV2 via a ST Fiber cable. What I heard was quite different and certainly better than what Roon was doing as a playback software.
I’m not getting into the sonic merits or adjectives of how it was better but it got me thinking as honestly frustrated since I was not enjoying my computer audio as I know my CD Transport was much better.
I then on a friends reccomendation installed Jriver. Setup was straight forward choose the NS1 as a DLNA endpoint and I was in business.
The sound on the Jriver - DLNA was as close to as I could get perhaps identical as my CDT.
I would like to know if there is anything I can do to make Roon sound just like how the CDT does which is superior without doubt. Jriver seems to mimic it very simply but roon is perhaps a db or 2 down + washed out and not as direct as the CDT.
Clearly there is something roon is doing to the signal which Jriver isnt.
Roon is installed as a ROCK on a nuc 8th gen.
Jriver is installed on a Windows OS nuc 8th gen.
I miss the Roon interface and the remote control but its impossible to go back from a SQ point of view.
My setup;
PAP Trio 15 Classic Voxativ pife
LTA UL+ Amps
EMM Labs DV2 + NS1 direct into the LTA.
Or the other way around. I trust the signal from Roon to be transparent and unaltered before anything else.
It’s very difficult to compare the two because the two signal paths are very different right now. You may want to try installing Roon on the Windows machine just to limit the number of variables. But before that, what does your signal path look like when using Roon with the NS1?
Not true. I don’t know if the CDT is doing any kind of upsampling (it shouldn’t) or if the input you’re using on the DAC from the CDT is different. What cabling do you have from NS1 and DV2? Does the NS1 have an optical out to match the same input you’re using for the CDT? I realize that between River and Roon the NS1 is common and it still sounds different but, again, between JRiver and Roon and the CDT you’ve got a lot of differences in signal path and we should try and eliminate as many differences as possible to give us a chance as to identifying exactly where the change in sound quality is coming from.
At the end of the day you may just prefer the sound of the JRiver path and that’s OK; some do.
Both Roon and JRiver are “bit perfect” unless you intervene hence should be identical.
Check the settings on both , is volume leveling on for example , look for any DSP functions , there are a lot of settings in JRiver not all collected together.
Also it would help to post the signal paths of both
I use both by coax to my headphone amp and hear no difference but I am 71 so my ears aren’t 100%,
DLNA and RAAT are different protocols so you may expect a difference, that’s why Roon developed RAAT because they didn’t like what DLNA produced.
To muddy the water more get a demo of Audirvana studio and see what that gives over DLNA, again I hear all 3 the same
Always ensure volume is level matched as any increase on one input can make it sound vey different. If this is done and still a difference then perhaps the N1 implementation of Roon Ready isn’t as good as it should be? There a number of ways a device can sound different for different protocols. Mainly it will be how well designed to hancle each one as each one has different demands on the hardware.
Naim streamers for instance tend to sound a bit bright when using Chromecast as input as the stack uses way more of the system resources and creates a little more internal noise. This is bitperfect to my knowledge. Airplay never sounds as good to me on any device at 44.1 and fixed volume its bitperfect
The N1 looks to use the off the shelf mconnect board which implements both UPnP and Roon Ready so who knows? Bit perfect to the device doesnt mean identical playback internally in all cases if they don’t mitigate the affects each bit of code may have on the limited system resources available.
Apple Airplay and Chrome Cast are not considered bit perfect. Airplay because it only supports 16/48 so will often resample to meet that. Apple TV and some other devices only support outputs of 16/48 or even CDs at 16/44.1 get resampled. Not all cast devices support better than 16/44.1 and so most get resampled as well.
When we think “bit perfect” it’s about moving the bitstream from file / stream to playout device without alteration. That means no resampling, no volume adjustment, no DSP, no filters, etc. RAAT can do that. upnp / dlna can do that. Often Airplay and Cast cannot. One big benefit of Roon is it shows you this via the Signal Path. The bigger benefit of RAAT + Roon Ready device is the Roon Ready device provides feedback to the Signal Path about anything happening within that device. Roon is very transparent in this regard.
Of course, none of this means Roon will sound the same as others but at least you know what Roon is doing unlike others.
Roon or any other software cant claim to sound better than the spinning disc played back from a proper reference CD Transport. I’d be amused if anyone did.
I believe roon is the gold standard in library management but the fact its doing something else sq wise vs a CDT is very annoying and their claims of not doing anything to the stream is incorrect then since another software does nothing to the sq and matches the cd tansport.
Airplay can in the situations I said and my RME will report bit perfect for it. I am sure Chromecast is bitperfect in same scenarios it is according to Roon as I get purple lights for both.
When I did use my Arcam Alpha 7 CD player into my same system via Spdif I don’t recall it sounding any better or worse. If it did sound sound better it would not be in the attic.
I just performed basically the same test of Jriver vs Roon and I hear no difference at all. I’m using SOtM SMS-200Ultra as the streamer into Chord Dave with M Scaler.
SMS-2000Ultra acts both as Roon endpoint and DLNA renderer, so I was able to quickly switch between the two setups.
Tested both DSD and PCM.
@Satyam_Bachani , I would guess you either have something incorrectly setup in Roon settings, or the NS1 Roon endpoint.
Now to find what it is …
This thread got me wondering - I’ve even dragged out one of my currently redundant audio PCs to try JRiver into my SMS200u
It’s running Win Server 16, JPlay, AO and Fidelizer
I’ll do that, but then I’m thinking I’ll install ROCK on it and compare to my Nucleus
It - is modified; fanless, 2x 12v LPS, 2x 5v LPS, shielded power lines, 3M EMI sheets, sorbothane mounted SSDs, Paul Pang SATA cables etc etc
When I did all those mods, the PC SQ was significantly improved so it’ll be interesting to hear whether Roon serves up any better from it
A lot of good points brought up thus far. There is a recent thread in the exact same vein (CD vs roon) in which that user much preferred his CDT. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
This topic seems to come up pretty frequently, which is good in so far as there are many great options for everyone and for lack of a better phrase, competition (which is healthy).
In all of the other audio forums, roon does get a lot visibility with regard to its SQ (good or poor). There is no way to blanket statement any products SQ across the board. The only thing that matters is our indiv experience and for anyone to call what someone else is hearing or experiencing rubbish, isn’t fair.
If however there is a large sample size of individuals stating similar behavior, then that IMHO gives the questionable SQ some legs and “requires” a conversation so to speak. If your in the measurement police or bits are bits, then more than likely not the conversation for you.
I would also say the key here is apples to apples will be exceedingly important. If after doing your due diligence with regard to keeping the comparisons as equal as possible => that requires a fair amount of effort, time and understanding of all controls in place, then that is all one can do.
After that, if an Aurender, CDT, or roon comes out on top for you then that is your reference.
Just willie-nillie playing back a track or two on different players / hardware and calling it good isn’t really the proper way IMHO. The challenge here is it does take time and effort to properly compare.
