Hi @vadim
The link at Step 3 didn’t work, but I did a Google search for the article, and followed the steps below, which I hope is correct.
All being well the zipped file should be with you now. I look forward to further updates.
Best regards
Alan
Hi @vadim
Another disconnect from my music tonight. I am incredibly tired of wasting chunks of my life waiting for Roon to function the way you think it can, only to find out that it cannot.
As far as I am concerned Roon continues to disappoint in both its failure to deliver the service as advertised, and also the failure of its customer service operation to respond to the needs of its paying customers in a timely fashion.
00.25 GMT, fed up looking at the swimming squid in the middle of my phone screen for the last half hour, so I’m off to bed. This ain’t good enough. And you know it.
A
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Hi @vadim , @noris , @benjamin
That’s six days now, with no new information. I have sent you my database as requested, I have pointed out that I am still experiencing issues, yet I still have to constantly rattle your cage to get some sort of update. I would have thought that after six days you would be in a position to reach out and try and make me more aware of what you are doing to help me out here. It’s starting to feel very frustrating being constantly thanked for my patience, but with nothing to show for it. You really need to do better than this, and it’s not just this time, it’s every time. Come on!
A
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Hi @Alan_Meldrum,
Please accept our apologies for the frustration we’ve caused and for our lapse in communication. This issue has been escalated and you can expect a prompt response moving forward.
At this time, the team is still busy hammering the database you provided under different conditions to create a dataset of logs from which we can determine the root cause. As soon as that process generates an actionable result, we’ll reach out here. If it’s taking longer than another day, we’ll also reach out here to keep you in the loop.
Thank you for your patience.
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Hi @connor , @noris , @vadim , @benjamin
Well, that’s five days since my last empty promise. What you got for me this week? I mean, apart from thanking me for my patience, yet again.
A
Good day @Alan_Meldrum !
We’re sorry for keeping you wait for such a long period of time.
Even considering the fact that OOM fix was released we still tend to think that 4 Gb of RAM might be a reason of the problem you experience now.
We’d like to ask you to test one thing:
-
Please make a backup and store it somewhere so you don’t lose it.
-
Navigate to your Roon’s Database Location
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Rename the “Roon” folder to “Roon_old”
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Restart/Reinstall the Roon App to generate a new Roon folder
-
Please try to add only a few tracks locally(without connecting Qobuz with thousands of tracks in your playlist) and play them.
Let us know please if having smaller number of tracks in library makes the experience better or smoother ?
Looking forward to your reply.
Thanks!
3 Likes
Hi @connor
Before I try what you are recommending, it pains me to point out that I have actually been waiting quite a long time to find out the results of the diagnostic analysis you were carrying out on the copy of the database I sent you, as shown below.
You now seem to be acting as if this did not happen at all (perhaps it didn’t), because you make no reference to it in your reply above, and you now seem to be putting the onus back on to me to try things out at my end. Would you at least be courteous enough to inform me what you actually discovered from the diagnostics you were carrying out?
I think it’s the least I can expect, don’t you? I feel as if I have provided you with quite a lot of information in response to your requests, but I haven’t really got much back in return that is of any help to me, or which provides me with any real insight into what is happening. I remain a disappointed customer, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Best regards
Alan
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Hi @alex_h
Last post was mistakenly sent to Connor, but I had intended it to be for you.
Regards
Alan
Hi @alex_h , @noris , @connor , @benjamin , @vadim
I have carried out your request shown above, although I am not sure what you mean at Step 5. I created a playlist with a small amount of local iTunes tracks in it and playback is as I would wish - instantaneous, so the issue is obviously with streamed Qobuz tracks.
I think we established that smaller playlists begin playback faster some time ago, as seen in the segment of my earlier post, shown below:
I ask once again:
It is now 37 DAYS since I first logged this issue, and you have provided me with NO information that would conclusively indicate what the problem is, yet you keep asking me to try this or try that in the vain hope that things might change. I would hope that you would have some level of professional embarrassment that things have dragged on to this extent, but apparently not.
Please contact me at your earliest convenience, hopefully this side of Christmas, and provide me with some meaningful information, and be decent enough to expand on the results of all the database hammering you’ve been doing on my behalf. Do you think you could do that?
I am not holding my breath.
A
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Now 38 days since I first logged the issue.
Now 39 days since I first logged the issue.
Hello @Alan_Meldrum ,
Thank you for the feedback. We can see that you’ve run into some limitations in how your current hardware and software handle playlists of large size. We’re really sorry that this is happening, and we realize there’s a lot of time invested and frustration involved that there isn’t a direct way for us to resolve this issue.
That said, we’re absolutely here to help however we can. If you’re open to it, we can continue suggesting a few further adjustments that may help reduce the symptoms and improve overall stability:
- We noticed that you still had a large queue in your Media Room zone, that may be causing issues. We suggest that you clear out this queue to see if the behavior normalized.
- Looking over your thread history, we did not notice an Operating System reinstall performed yet. Just in case it is due to something going wrong in the operating system, we suggest giving this a try in your Nucleus WebUI:
- We have tried to enable a diagnostic mode for your Nucleus that may help with the issue. To make sure this is properly enabled, please try to perform a reboot of your Nucleus twice to ensure the mode is picked up.
Hi @noris
Well, I know I’m a bit slow on the uptake, but by clearing out the queue, I am not going to be hearing any more songs, am I? Or do you mean something else when you say ‘clear out’?
As I have mentioned before, I like shuffling songs from the large playlists I have curated, because that was something I expected to be able to do with the Nucleus hardware I bought from you. I have quite a number of playlists sitting at the Qobuz maximum of 2000 tracks, so if I click shuffle on one of them then I have 1999 tracks in the queue, yeah? We have already established earlier in the thread that smaller playlists commence playback more quickly, but if I was to make one playlist of 2000 tracks into say four playlists of 500 tracks, then it’s just going to make listening to music much more of a hassle.
The fact is, I was sold this model of Nucleus on the understanding that it was good for managing up to 100000 tracks, and I am just below half that amount at the moment. I have been shuffling playlists of 2000 tracks without any difficulty in the past, but I am no longer able to do this.
You now tell me:
So, you seem to be telling me, having pondered this issue since OCTOBER 19th, that you know things are not working the way they should, but that you don’t know how to make things better, other than run some suggestions past me, which quite frankly seem to be clutching at straws.
I have performed an Operating System reinstall, and have rebooted the Nucleus twice, as you requested, screenshots below confirm the times, all GMT. The result? I road tested a 2000 track playlist on shuffle on the Mac, and it took about 7 seconds to kick in. Better than what I’ve been used to, but still 7 seconds slower than I would like it to be.
OK, well I’m happy to take on board any meaningful, proactive suggestions you might have to offer moving forward, because none of the advice you have given me so far has made any difference to how Roon is performing for me.
Yeah, well you can start by responding to my messages in an acceptable time frame. The last message I received from you was thirteen days ago, and your response times have been historically abysmal. You people really should be ashamed of yourself for taking as long as you do to respond to customers like myself, because I have handed over serious money for a lifetime subscription and a Nucleus, and I am fed up at the continued failure of the system to do what it is supposed to do. Honestly, you guys wouldn’t get a red face at a bonfire. THIRTEEN days? Modesty prevents me from expressing the words that are going through my mind just now, but believe me, they ain’t pretty. Try and buck the trend and respond to this tomorrow, you owe me that much. I’ve done what you told me to do, what next?
Yours in dismay
Alan
Hello @Alan_Meldrum ,
Thank you for taking the time to write back, and for the extremely detailed follow-up. We also want to start by acknowledging your point about the response delays. You’re absolutely right — thirteen days is far too long to wait for an update. There are reasons behind the scenes that can slow us down, even if they’re not visible on your end, but that doesn’t lessen the impact it has on you. We’re genuinely sorry for that, and we’re making every effort to get back to you — and to everyone else in the queue — in a much more reasonable timeframe going forward.
We also want to thank you for trying the steps we suggested, including the OS reinstall and the double reboot to ensure diagnostics were enabled. We appreciate you sticking with it, especially given your frustration, and we’re glad to hear you saw at least some improvement in startup time afterward, even if it still isn’t where it needs to be for your workflow.
That said, we hear you loud and clear regarding the difference between what you were expecting from your Nucleus and the experience you’re having today. There is a distinction between total library size (where the Nucleus One is rated up to ~100k tracks) and specific usage patterns — things like shuffling large 2,000-track playlists, having multiple long queues active, and certain metadata combinations can require significantly more resources. We truly wish the root cause were as plain as day, but in cases like this it often ends up being a constellation of smaller factors interacting in ways that are unfortunately very hard — and sometimes impossible — to diagnose remotely.
When we suggested clearing the queue, we weren’t asking you to give up how you listen to music. Clearing a zone queue doesn’t delete your playlists or stop you from shuffling them again — it simply resets the active playback queue to rule out any corruption or runaway state. But we absolutely understand that breaking up your playlists isn’t a workable long-term solution.
From here, the next steps we can take are as follows:
Please send a copy of your Roon database to the link below, you can use these instructions to access it:
https://workdrive.zohoexternal.com/collection/gnhz54df9ddffa33d49a3be8619bd6376a5de/external
Once the database has been uploaded, our QA team will try to reproduce on their end using your database.
Even if the underlying behavior stems from new limitations rather than a single fixable bug, we’re still here to work through the remaining possibilities with you and make this experience as smooth as we can. Thank you.
Hi @noris
We seem to be covering old ground here.
The quote above is from @connor 23 days ago. Given the fact that I do not seem to have received any feedback whatsoever about the database hammering he refers to in that post, I can only presume that an ‘actionable result’ was not generated. Yet now you seem to want me to send you the database again, and to this layman’s eyes it seems as if you are asking me to provide you with information I sent you over three weeks ago, which seemed to offer no insight into the problem whatsoever, at least none you’ve felt able to share with me.
What is my motivation here? Are you going to receive the data, wait another 23 days, and tell me nothing this time as well? Before I re-send this information, could you enlighten me on what your analysis of the last chunk of data I sent you was? In case you hadn’t noticed, I have very little faith in your ability to help me moving forward, especially when I have complied with all of your requests to date, but have received no helpful advice whatsoever. A simple summary of what you have achieved on my behalf up to this point would suffice, and also explain to me what you hope to achieve with any new data I send you.
You also do not seem to have an opinion about why I used to be able to commence playback instantly of playlists containing 2,000 tracks, but now no longer can. Why has the performance fallen off a cliff? It’s not as if my library has suddenly doubled in size or anything.
Information is key, and you are not providing me with anything useful, and seem to be engaging in the practice of deflection and obfuscation. Please stop being vague, and start being specific. If you can look back over the last six weeks’ worth of exchanges and identify any useful information that I can use, then you’re a better man than me.
A
Hello @Alan_Meldrum ,
We know progress has been slow, and we’re really sorry to be adding one more setback here.
Our QA team has been working with limited bandwidth, and it took longer than expected for them to review the database you uploaded. Unfortunately, once they were able to examine it, they found that the upload hadn’t completed properly, which left the database in a corrupted state.
We realize this is the last thing you want to hear after the delays so far. If you’re still willing, a fresh database upload would give us what we need to properly continue the investigation — and we’ll prioritize it as soon as it arrives.
Hi @noris
Yeah, well… Remember when I said that information is key? You obviously had no intention of updating me on the lack of success with the previous database upload, and instead just requested that I do it again. I think this is more than a little disingenuous.
I would actually respect you a lot more if you didn’t try and hide behind pretty language such as:
Just tell me that you’re dealing with a never-ending conveyor belt of problems, and that you don’t have enough staff to deal with them all. Honestly, I’d cut you a bit of slack. But instead you try and maintain this veneer of functionality, when in actual fact you seem unable to meet even the most basic requirements for acceptable customer service, and you deliver very little. You guys should maybe spend a bit less on your glitzy promotional material on your website, and spend a bit more on making sure that the product can deliver the way you say it will, because I hate to say it Noris, but it ain’t like it is in the brochure, and you got my money a long time ago.
The database Zip file should be with you now.
Save it mate. You’ve cried wolf too many times. I just laugh when I see stuff like this now.
A
Hi @Alan_Meldrum,
Just a quick reminder, this is the Technical Support category - please feel free to leave any thoughts and opinions around Roon and how we handle support over in our Feedback category.
Neither upload appears to actually host your saved backup. Both are much too small, and cannot be opened successfully.
Can you please:
- Zip up your
RoonBackupsfolder (right-click it and select “Compress…”): - Submit the .zip file to us through our Database Issues portal
Thank you
Hi @benjamin
So, you’d like me to start another thread in different category, that way I can start waiting for responses on that thread too, hoping that maybe the person dealing with the other thread will contact the individuals who are demonstrably poor at communicating and let them know how frustrating and annoying I find it? Seems a bit of an unnecessary layer of administration to me. If I am dealing with individuals in your support team who seem incapable of responding in an acceptable time frame, then I am sorry, but I feel I am entitled to communicate my disappointment to them directly. Especially if they are telling me that your team is ‘hammering my database’, when in actual fact they haven’t been able to open it.
If you’re not happy about my choices here, then I can’t say I’m too bothered. Probably the best solution for all concerned is for your customer services operation to improve your level of service in a bid to assuage beleaguered customers such as myself. I mean, it took you three days to tell me that I had made a mess of sending you the Zip folder, because it arrived empty. Why did it take so long Benjamin? Can you give me an honest answer to that question?
The Roon Server folder is compressing as I speak, but it seems to be taking a long time to do so. I will forward it when it has completed the process.
A
Hi @benjamin
The Zip file has now been uploaded. I await a response at your convenience, whenever that might be.
A