SOtM SMS-200 cannot do Native DSD with TEAC UD-501 [Answered]

Robert_Joe · June 13, 2017, 2:35am

I updated SOtM SMS-200 to the latest firmware. As you can see below, it says Native DSD was added for the TEAC UD-501. But Roon must not be seeing it because the DSP Engine does not show the DSD settings. It is only when I set the SMS-200 back to DOP do the DSD setting show up in Roon.

Version : V0.3.8

Date : 15-05-2017
Integrate sMS-200ultra
Update Roonready to 1.1.19
Add wifi dongle device IDs; TP-Link - Archer T4U AC1300, T4UHP

Version : V0.3.7

Date : 24-04-2017
Modify UI

Version : V0.3.6

Date : 10-04-2017
Update Roonready to 1.1.16
Update NAA to 3.5.0
Add NAA period time option
Add DACs to native DSD: TEAC UD-501/UD-503/NT-503, OPPO Sonica, ENCORE mDSD, Denafrips DAC, Singxer F-1 converter board, HDTA Serenade DSD, Mutec MC3+ USB
Modify kernel DSD noise patch

eric · June 13, 2017, 3:05pm

Hi @Robert_Joe — Thank you for the report and sharing your observation with us, both are appreciated!

Moving forward, to help me better understand this behavior you’re experiencing, may I very kindly ask you to please provide the follow information:

A brief but accurate description of your current setup.
Screenshots of the settings you are using in Roon for the TEAC UD-501 and the signal path leaving Roon when you are making this observation.
During your troubleshooting of this issue, have you by chance tested the SMS-200 with another Native DSD capable DAC to confirm if “Native” is being listed under the DSD settings?

-Eric

Robert_Joe · June 14, 2017, 2:18pm

Setup:

Roon running on Linux Mint, connected to 1-Gig Switch.
SOtM sMS-200, connected to the same Switch.
Roon controlled using Windows7 Laptop or Android Tablet.

Attached is SMS_DOP.jpg for the Sample Rate Conversion Screen. This is when the sMS-200 is set to DOP. You can see Roon is converting to DSD128.

Attached is SMS_DSD.jpg for the Sample Rate Conversion Screen. This is when the sMS-200 is set to Native DSD. You can see Roon has no options to convert to DSD.

At 06:56 is when Roon is discovering the sMS-200 when it is in DSD mode.

06/14 06:56:57 Trace: [transport/raat] Endpoint discovered: Sooloos.Audio.Raat.DiscoveryData
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat] Initializing RoonReady Device
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat]     Address:         192.168.2.100
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat]     Port:            36811
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat]     IsDev:           False
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat]     UniqueId:        8f4322e8-4507-4b21-b93d-02050a01c460
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat]     ProtocolVersion: 3
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat]     Version:         V0.3.8
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat]     RaatVersion:     1.1.19
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat]     Model:           sMS-200
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat]     Vendor:          SOtM
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat]     VendorModel:     SOtM sMS-200
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat]     Serial:          02050a01c460
06/14 06:56:57 Info: [transport/raat]     OutputName:
06/14 06:56:57 Trace: [transport/raat] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] connecting (attempt 1)
06/14 06:56:57 Trace: [transport/raat] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] => Connecting
06/14 06:56:57 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] Initializing RAAT session
06/14 06:56:57 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] Loading script raat.dat:base.lua as module base [1088 chars]
06/14 06:56:57 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] Loading script raat.dat:dkjson.lua as module dkjson [22416 chars]
06/14 06:56:57 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] Loading script raat.dat:protocol.lua as module protocol [2045 chars]
06/14 06:56:57 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] Loading script raat.dat:roon_tcp.lua [37340 chars]
06/14 06:56:58 Info: [stats] 3934mb Virtual, 467mb Physical, 213mb Managed, 0 Handles, 39 Threads
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] RAAT Session initialized in 195ms
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] SENT [2]{"request":"info"}
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] SENT [3]{"request":"set_client_type","client_type":"Roon"}
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] GOT [2] {"status":"Success","info":{"unique_id":"8f4322e8-4507-4b21-b93d-02050a01c460"},"output":{"info":{"alsa_device":{"driver":"USB-Audio","longname":"TEAC Corporation TEAC UD-501 at usb-1c1c000.usb-1, high speed","mixername":"USB Mixer","usbid":"0644:8043","components":"UD501","id":"UD501","name":"TEAC UD-501"},"config":{"resync_delay":0.2,"device":"hw:CARD=UD501,0","signal_path":[{"quality":"lossless","type":"output","method":"usb"}],"buffer_duration":0.1,"dsd_mode":"native","max_dsd_rate":128,"type":"alsa"}},"supported_formats":"96000/16/1|2,44100/24/1|2,192000/16/1|2,176400/16/1|2,176400/32/1|2,352800/16/1|2,88200/32/1|2,176400/24/1|2,48000/16/1|2,44100/32/1|2,384000/32/1|2,48000/32/1|2,88200/24/1|2,384000/24/1|2,352800/32/1|2,384000/16/1|2,352800/24/1|2,192000/24/1|2,48000/24/1|2,192000/32/1|2,44100/16/1|2,96000/24/1|2,88200/16/1|2,96000/32/1|2"},"transport":{"is_supported":false,"info":[]},"source_selection":{"info":[],"is_supported":false},"platform":{"uname":{"version":"#1 SMP Mon Apr 3 17:12:27 KST 2017","nodename":"sms-200","release":"4.4.14-205.fc22.armv7hl","sysname":"Linux","machine":"armv7l"},"os":"linux"},"flags":{"has_write_chmap":true},"volume":{"info":[],"is_supported":false}}
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [transport/raat] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] => Connected
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [transport/raat] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] connected
06/14 06:56:58 Info: [transport] creating endpoint for raat device 8f4322e8-4507-4b21-b93d-02050a01c460
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] SENT [4]{"request":"subscribe_transport"}
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] SENT [5]{"request":"subscribe_controls"}
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [transport/dsp] loaded DSP config {"version":2,"items":[{"type":"bs2b","enabled":false},{"type":"parametric_equalizer","enabled":false}],"headroom_adjustment":{"type":"headroom_adjustment"},"sample_rate_conversion":{"type":"sample_rate_conversion","sample_rate_conversion_mode":"dsd","dsd_output_rate":5644800,"enabled":true},"speaker_setup":{"type":"speaker_setup"}}
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:36811] GOT [3] {"status":"Success"}
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [zone] [sMS-200] Loading
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [zone] [sMS-200] Suspend
06/14 06:56:58 Trace: [zoneplayer/raat] Endpoint SOtM sMS-200 () Initial State: Idle


**At 07:00 s when Roon is discovering the sMS-200 when it is in DOP mode.**

06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat] Initializing RoonReady Device
06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat]     Address:         192.168.2.100
06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat]     Port:            46798
06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat]     IsDev:           False
06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat]     UniqueId:        8f4322e8-4507-4b21-b93d-02050a01c460
06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat]     ProtocolVersion: 3
06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat]     Version:         V0.3.8
06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat]     RaatVersion:     1.1.19
06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat]     Model:           sMS-200
06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat]     Vendor:          SOtM
06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat]     VendorModel:     SOtM sMS-200
06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat]     Serial:          02050a01c460
06/14 07:00:29 Info: [transport/raat]     OutputName:
06/14 07:00:29 Trace: [transport/raat] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] connecting (attempt 1)
06/14 07:00:29 Trace: [transport/raat] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] => Connecting
06/14 07:00:29 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] Initializing RAAT session
06/14 07:00:29 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] Loading script raat.dat:base.lua as module base [1088 chars]
06/14 07:00:29 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] Loading script raat.dat:dkjson.lua as module dkjson [22416 chars]
06/14 07:00:29 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] Loading script raat.dat:protocol.lua as module protocol [2045 chars]
06/14 07:00:29 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] Loading script raat.dat:roon_tcp.lua [37340 chars]
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] RAAT Session initialized in 223ms
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] SENT [2]{"request":"info"}
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] SENT [3]{"request":"set_client_type","client_type":"Roon"}
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] GOT [2] {"flags":{"has_write_chmap":true},"source_selection":{"info":[],"is_supported":false},"transport":{"is_supported":false,"info":[]},"status":"Success","volume":{"info":[],"is_supported":false},"output":{"supported_formats":"96000/16/1|2,88200/32/1|2,384000/32/1|2,176400/24/1|2,44100/24/1|2,384000/24/1|2,352800/32/1|2,384000/16/1|2,5644800/1/1|2,176400/32/1|2,352800/16/1|2,44100/16/1|2,2822400/1/1|2,88200/16/1|2,96000/24/1|2,192000/24/1|2,88200/24/1|2,352800/24/1|2,48000/24/1|2,96000/32/1|2,176400/16/1|2,48000/32/1|2,192000/32/1|2,44100/32/1|2,192000/16/1|2,48000/16/1|2","info":{"alsa_device":{"id":"UD501","mixername":"USB Mixer","driver":"USB-Audio","longname":"TEAC Corporation TEAC UD-501 at usb-1c1c000.usb-1, high speed","usbid":"0644:8043","components":"UD501","name":"TEAC UD-501"},"config":{"dsd_mode":"dop","buffer_duration":0.1,"device":"hw:CARD=UD501,0","resync_delay":0.2,"signal_path":[{"type":"output","quality":"lossless","method":"usb"}],"max_dsd_rate":128,"type":"alsa"}}},"platform":{"uname":{"release":"4.4.14-205.fc22.armv7hl","version":"#1 SMP Mon Apr 3 17:12:27 KST 2017","sysname":"Linux","machine":"armv7l","nodename":"sms-200"},"os":"linux"},"info":{"unique_id":"8f4322e8-4507-4b21-b93d-02050a01c460"}}
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [transport/raat] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] => Connected
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [transport/raat] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] connected
06/14 07:00:30 Info: [transport] creating endpoint for raat device 8f4322e8-4507-4b21-b93d-02050a01c460
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] SENT [4]{"request":"subscribe_transport"}
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] SENT [5]{"request":"subscribe_controls"}
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [transport/dsp] loaded DSP config {"version":2,"items":[{"type":"bs2b","enabled":false},{"type":"parametric_equalizer","enabled":false}],"headroom_adjustment":{"type":"headroom_adjustment"},"sample_rate_conversion":{"type":"sample_rate_conversion","sample_rate_conversion_mode":"dsd","dsd_output_rate":5644800,"enabled":true},"speaker_setup":{"type":"speaker_setup"}}
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [transport/raatclient] [SOtM sMS-200 () @ 192.168.2.100:46798] GOT [3] {"status":"Success"}
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [zone] [sMS-200] Loading
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [zone] [sMS-200] Suspend
06/14 07:00:30 Trace: [zoneplayer/raat] Endpoint SOtM sMS-200 () Initial State: Idle

Robert_Joe · June 14, 2017, 2:23pm

When I use the Teac supplied ASIO driver and connect the DAC to my Windows laptop (i.e. sMS-200 is no longer the brdige) then Roon is able to convert to and send Native DSD to the DAC.

So their appears to be some handshake problem between Roon and sMS-200 as far as recognizing that Native DSD is supported.

eric · June 14, 2017, 9:31pm

Hi @Robert_Joe ---- Thank you for the follow up and providing the requested screenshots, both are appreciated.

Moving forward, I would actually like to see screenshots of the “device settings” you are using in Roon when trying to send Native DSD content to the SMS-200 + TEAC UD-501 DAC. This information can be found by going into the audio tab, clicking the gear next to the zone in question, and selecting “device setup”. Furthermore, have you tried testing without using the DSP engine and playing back a DSD file instead of upsampling?

Lastly I did a bit of searching around on community to see if anyone else had a similar issue and it sounds like this thread could be pretty close: Cannot play DSD 256 to SoTM SMS 200 [fix pending from SoTM].

-Eric

Robert_Joe · June 15, 2017, 4:49am

I tried playing back a DSD64 file with DSP Engine disabled. Roon converts it to PCM 352.8.

In the SMS Roonready configuration, the only option that works is DOP or Native/DOP. Those are the only options that make the DSP Engine give options for upsampling to DSD. Both will send DOP packets.

If you look at the log snippets I posted this morning (see above post), you see this being returned by SMS
,“dsd_mode”:“native”,

So that means SMS is telling Roon “Native DSD” but Roon is ignoring it and not enabling DSD.

Attached are the screenshots you wanted

:

.

eric · June 16, 2017, 11:24pm

Hi @Robert_Joe ----- Thank you for your continued feedback and more importantly your patience here.

I am going to be discussing this issue with my team to see what we can come up with in regard to this behavior you’ve reported. Once I have some feedback from our techs I will be sure to update you/thread promptly.

-Eric

eric · September 6, 2017, 3:31pm

Hi @Robert_Joe ----Thank you for your patience here and my sincere apologies for the wait.

I wanted to touch base to see how things have been going with the SMS-200 + UD-501, any new progress or observations? Furthermore, my techs have asked me to have you verify if you are able to get native DSD playback outside of Roon to the mentioned audio zone (i.e SMS-200 + UD-501).

Looking forward to your feedback!
-Eric

Robert_Joe · September 7, 2017, 1:56am

Native DSD works with JRiver and Teac’s own player software. It is only Roon that is not working. Roon only works with DOP.

mike · October 4, 2017, 9:44pm

Hey @Robert_Joe – sorry for the delay here. Could you clarify this for me:

Are you testing this from a Windows PC, or are you using the SMS-200 when testing with Roon?

Native DSD requires kernel support on the Linux device for the specific DAC it’s connected to, and as far as I can tell (as per this page) SoTM has not yet listed the TEAC device as being supported for Native DSD playback.

If the DAC is connected to the same Windows PC and you’re getting different results with Roon than you are with other apps, let us know and we can definitely take another look at this.

Alternatively, if this question is about SMS-200’s support for Native DSD with the UD-501, you’ll probably need to discuss that with SoTM. Hopefully that helps, but let us know if not. Thanks!

Robert_Joe · October 6, 2017, 12:38am

OK thanks. You can close this ticket.