I deliberately did not use the word Pro, as those who are audiophiles recognize this term refers to the mastering/editing/sound engineering community. When I write “consumer” audio, I refer to known consumer brands like Bose who sell high quality, but not audiophile components.
This is a survey, and per my original post, I don’t seek to be “right.”
I’m just sharing that very few people who have true high end audio systems would ever prioritize speakers over source. No way, no how.
Cheers!
I own some good digital sources in my main system, including a Linn DS/3 and an Esoteric K-01X BH.
Are they ‘better’ than what went before, which in this case was a Lumin A1 and a Denon DCD-A100? Yes. Absolutely. No matter how good the Lumin and the Denon are.
Yes, it is a more of a principle/hypothetical question for most, if not all, of the forum users - which I would guess already have a nice and complete system.
It’s a silly question that was created by Linn as a marketing strategy.
Sir, and I can assure you, you would miserably lose in a blinded test. Anything else is not valid and only your mind playing tricks on you.
Yeah. I lightheartedly would bet a month‘ salary that almost all self-declared audiophiles would fail to tell a dcs Bartok from a Gustard or Topping in a real blind test. I mean very well beyond 50% identification rate of their gear.
I don’t mind if people spend big bucks on gear for the looks or the built quality. That’s fine. Or to impress the neighbors. But just stop telling fairytales.
It’s the implication that unless you have a true high end system then you can’t join the ‘club’ that amuses me.
I log it along with ‘trained ears’ ‘wife came in and fell over’ true audiophile’ and ‘ex orchestral player’
“It’s the implication that unless you have a true high end system then you can’t join the ‘club’”
There was no implication like that of any kind. There is no ‘club.’ It’s a survey, and I’m not trying to offend anyone.
I’m simply stating my opinion and experience,that I–and everyone I know with high-end systems–don’t think the speaker is the most important piece of equipment. Most people do, and that’s fine.
No you are stating your own opinion and disguising it as if most people with high end systems agree. Following this thread it appears they don’t unless the inference is that a lot of us aren’t in the club?
Both are important. I sell audio gear part time. If we are talking newbies, they need a pair of speakers that they like the sound of in a non fatiguing way and that are resolving enough to hear changes in the system as they gain more experience. Having said that everything between the source and the speakers will only allow you to hear the quality of your source so the next most important thing is a quality source that has a sound you like within a budget you are comfortable with. The preamp and amp will not improve the sound of the source, only let you hear what you have.
I agree with your main point but speakers have to be resolving enough to hear changes. Very few people start out with a flagship source in vinyl or digital. So i would still argue first purchase a nice pair of speakers you enjoy, but are resolving enough to hear changes as you upgrade your source, amp and preamp.
E.
Yes, correct. The more one is involved with the music reproduction, the more one will understand “garbage in, garbage out”.
I think the issue is that in 2022, measurably perfect completely transparent sources with dynamic range and resolution far in excess of human hearing exist for very small sums of money.
For example I’ve taken a plunge on a Matrix Audio Element I streamer. It measures flawlessly and is capable of more resolution and dynamic range than any speaker will ever be able to reproduce.
Speakers / microphones, both as transducers are by far the place where the hugest losses occur. Where losses and distortion are in order of several percent, not 0.0023% as in many dacs.
In this scenario, where the place with the highest compromise, highest loss and highest opportunity to screw things up, why would you not spend by far the highest part of the budget on the speakers?
It is not how accurate the DAC is in terms of measurement. It is the conversion of digital to analogue that is crucial and critical. By the end of day, it is the SQ of the analogue output is the one that counts.
If it’s measurably completely ruler flat, with no distortion or noise at the output stage. Where exactly do you think there is room for variance?
I’ve yet to hear one decent dac that genuinely sounds different from any other well measured dac.
Converting to analogue isn’t hard. It hasn’t been for about two decades now. High end companies wrap it in mysticism and put clever names like “Orpheus class a output stage”.
P.s. the latter on a £5000 dac sounded identical to their £300 streamer to me.
Edit:
I once compared a £40 usb dongle, a £300 TEAC dac and a £1100 eastern electronics dac, through a high resolving marantz reference and klipsch system.
They all sounded the same
By analogy, do all turnables sound the same (with same cartridge, tone arms, etc)? Do all CD players sound the same? Do Chord DACs, Lumin DACs sound the same as any $200 DAC?
Why do Lumin, Linn, Chord, Naim, etc make different DACs for different price range? They all do it to milk us, the naive audiopools?
If they all sound the same for you, there must be something odd?
Well turntables no, because carts, like speakers are mechanical electro magnetic items and prone to huge loss and distortion, so very much able to be different.
CD players operate in the world of read once and hope for the best, and a land where error correction is far from perfect. But largely I find them all much of a muchness.
But dacs driven by streaming technology or usb? Yes, all the same. The ones that don’t, measure poorer as a result. The aim of any dac should be to output a completely flat, low distortion signal. If it doesn’t achieve that, it’s poorly designed. If it does achieve that, then where’s the scope for variance?
A dac is either competent or it’s not. If it rolls off the highs, has a recessed midrange or a bass heavy balance, it’ll show up in a measurement and would prove to be an inaccurate source.
As an aside, even the noise / distortion thing isn’t hugely relevant as I doubt many people that can afford high end hifi still have a dynamic range of 120db 
Maybe we need a new thread for discussing if all DACs sound the same? 
I completely disagree w measurement being the most important thing. There are profound sonic differences between digital sources that measure excellently. Differences in power supplies, da processing, cabling feeding the dac, clocks, isolation and types of digital input make a difference in the sound, a quality system w quality speakers allow you to hear those differences. Does the dac have tubes integrated into it or not? Etc.
I’ve spent time with the lumin d2,t2, the innuos zen mini, zen, and zenith, the nad m52 each sounds different and excellent in their own way. I’ve heard many outstanding dacs from chip based dacs to tube dacs to nos dacs each sounds different. But to my original point, if taht newbie I was talking about liked the sound of the dac you named then fine. That might free up more money for better speakers. I think w digital good measurements are easy, nonfatiguing analog sound quality without losing resolution is way harder.
Source first, speakers last.
I’m surprised so many people want to put the cart before the horse.