NAS setups are built to a price point like everything else. In our HIFI hobby such build restrictions are perhaps to the detriment of quality audio. Like many my ears have seen (heard) better days…and I know they are on a downward spiral in terms of response curves, etc. I now try to compensate with better setups for power and noise floor impacts…we at least as best I can. While I can’t maybe hear much difference it does make me feel a little better knowing I have taken fewer shortcuts in terms of quality.
1 Like
I think it obviously depends on the system, music, room - all the usual stuff - how apparent the difference would be, but I listened to a wide range while doing the comparison. I could hear the difference even on poorly-recorded material like Motörhead’s Overkill, never mind well-recorded classical and jazz - and I’m sixty, have ridden motorbikes since my teens and been to more noisy gigs than I have remaining brain cells to remember, so my ears are definitely not at their best…
I’m tempted to try with an internal SSD, though I’ve been working on the premise that the drive being outside the Nucleus case is contributing to the superior performance.
I’ll definitely be getting a good power supply to see if that lifts things further, though probably not for the NAS as well…
I am glad you posted this. From all that I can tell, what people are saying is that the best sound quality is obtained with an internal SSD, followed by ethernet/NAS, followed by USB SSD. Is this about Correct?
If it is, I can live with that and move my hi-res files from my computer to the internal drive by drag and drop. That is, copy the new files as they come in from my iMac which is storing them to the internal SSD on the Nucleus + Also correct?
This is reasonable protection since the files are now on two different systems on two different storage media. I also use TimeMachine which is not really backup but it would do in a pinch where the Nucleus + internal disk, and the external SSD on the iMac that has my music both fail at the same time. If the USB TimeMachine disk also connected to the iMac fail at the same time, it is a risk - could happen with a strange power surge. I may have to address that 
One last question. Could I have the nucleus start an automatic copy of new files on an iMac folder. I am aware of the watch function, but this is more.
Jon, I would recommend adding some type of off-site backup to your backup plan. I have my music files backed up on two different hard drives internal to my PC, and a RAID 1 USB drive attached to the PC, and in case my house gets taken out or my gear gets stolen, I have all the files backed up in cloud storage. The primary playback drive is the 4TB SSD in my Nucleus.
This may sound like overkill but I have more than 2,600 CDs and ripping those is something I never want to do again (I’ve done it twice already! First for MP3s, and second for FLACs when I got the Nucleus).
There are many cloud services but I use Amazon and have been pleased with that. They have plans in 1 TB increments which allows me to tailor the plan more closely to my needs than some of the other services I looked at.
1 Like
Thanks very much. I appreciate the point about not wanting to RIP the CDs again. I am about to start that process when I get my Nucleus +, but with far fewer CDs
I have used Dropbox for many years. They just increased to 2TB for personal use. The maximum they allow is 3TB with a business agreement.
- Apple iCloud also has 2TB restrictions.
- Google does go to 10TB for $99/month I was told but that is too much money.
- Before retiring, I spent a lot of time designing AWS solutions. Too much bother for me for what I want.
I am going to go with a simpler solution. I am going to backup my time machine disk to another disk and update every so often and store somewhere else. I doubt I will ever need it.
Back to my original question to @danny. I just want to confirm that sonically, an SATA internal drive will be better than a USB connected drive or connecting to a shared area on my iMac connected via Ethernet.
I don’t believe you will get a definitive answer here. I have compared music played from my Nuc through either it’s internal 1TB SSD or my Synology NAS and I can’t tell a difference. I’ve heard similar statements from other Roon users. But there will always be others who say they were astounded by the differences.
There may be occasional performance (speed) improvements from the SSD vs the NAS, but again they happen under some circumstances and are small.
I like the internal SSD in a NUC because it is compact and neat. Others prefer the USB drive because it is portable. Personally, I think those are the more important factors because the sonic differences (in my experience) are not noticeable.
1 Like
I was told by the dealer that sold me my Nucleus plus the reason for the sonic difference between an internal SATA drive and a USB connected drive is that the system must work harder to get the data from the USB device into the system than reading it from the SATA drive. Based on my experience with computer systems over the years, some paths do, in fact, require more CPU processing to copy/move data. This is not to say there is anything wrong with the implementation, just how USB works relative to an internal SATA drive. The issue is not SSD vs. HDD, it is USB vs. SATA. Of course, I would use SSD in over HDD in any case for the additional advantages that brings.
As Scott says, I’m sure some people will state that they can hear this. I certainly can’t, and frankly, I think we are getting into “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin” territory here. 
Hello, Danny,
my internal Nucleus+ SSD (4TB) is full (.flac, .wav, .aif, .dsf files) and needs to be replaced with a larger SSD (8TB),
so I have read this very interesting Threet very carefully.
(https://community.roonlabs.com/u/Gerald_Schrader) 21 May 2019:
The final step by step listing by Gerald Schrader has been slightly optimized:
-
Backup Roon database .
-
Log out of Nucleus.(???)
-
Shut down Nucleus.
-
Disconnect the Nucleus from the electric power
-
Remove / replace internal storage SSD to an larger one.
-
Connect the Nucleus to the electric power.
-
Power up Nucleus.
-
On web admin page, 1.-stop the server software.
-
From web admin page, format new SSD with nucleus.
-
On web admin page, 2.-stop the server software.
-
Copy music files across the network from my storage backup location (PC) to new internal SSD in Nucleus.
-
From web admin page, restart server software.
-
Go to Nucleus log-in page (???)
-
restore database.
Since this process is new and risky for me, no mistakes should happen, hence my questions:
a) Is this Step by Step listing correct and complete?
b) Has this process been tested by Roon Lab?
c) Has this process been included in the KB?
d) What does Pos.2 “Log out of Nucleus” mean?
e.1) Is Pos.2 necessary if so, why and how must it be done?
e.2) Is it not sufficient to remove the Nucleus power supply for SSD disassembly and SSD installation?
f) Pos.11 “copy music files …”:
f.1) can the disassembled SSD (from the Nucleus) be connected to a PC (Win10 64 bit) for the copy process via home network?
f.2) how to speed up the copying process, for example, 1.7 TB of music files took more than 20 hours.
g) where to find the “Nucleus log-in page”?
h) in pos.2 there should be a “log out of Nucleus”, but a “log in of Nucleus” is not documented, how is that to be understood?
Thank you very much and greetings from near Basel (Switzerland)
Michael Strickrodt
.
My comments below on some of your questions:
a) The procedure sounds good from what I can recall.
d) Go to Settings, General and click Logout.
e.2) Obviously you can either disconnect the power supply from the Nucleus, or else disconnect the power supply from the AC wall outlet. Either will work.
f.1) Absolutely not. The Nucleus uses a proprietary file system that would not be compatible with your PC.
f.2) It should not take that long for 1.7 TB. I seem to recall that I copied over 3 TB of music to my Nucleus in only a few hours. How are you doing the copy process?
g) I don’t remember offhand, but I’m pretty sure there is a KB article that addresses this.
h) Yes, you will need to login to the Nucleus after all the preceding steps have been completed.
Gerald
Following on from some of the above -
I already have a NAS and use it to store my music. It is connected via ethernet to a Windows PC which runs Roon Server, and this is in turn connected via ethernet to my endpoint (SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo).
My question is - would there be any advantage is having my music on an internal drive in the Windows PC? From what I have read (including from devs), having the music on an internal drive is preferred, though I’m unclear if this is simply due to cost & complexity factors, or anything else. Will the browsing experience be better with the music stored internally? I’m not sure about this as the database is stored on an internal SSD on the Windows PC, and the NAS will not be accessed until audio is played (or analysed, or images are cached). Also from what I’ve read, there are no discernible differences in SQ with these setups, but I’m happy to stand corrected (said the man in orthopaedic shoes).
I would assume it means log out of RoonServer via the Nucleus Web UI. However, that is really also accomplished during a normal shut down in Step 3.
Well, yes it has been done via a Mac, read this thread, doing it on Windows would require a driver to read the format and you would carry the risk of data corruption. I wouldn’t really attempt it.
I still am partial to external drives; so much less hassle.
Well not true, the internal drive uses the ext4, file system. Which can be read by Macs, and with the help of drivers can be accessed via Windows as well. Not that I recommend doing that. But, not proprietary.
Why is it necessary to do a database restore at the end after copying the files to the new drive? I would think that after copying the files and restarting the server that it would just find all the files in their proper place.
Have to agree with you in part. I recently upgraded my Nucleus + and it is working fantastically with a large library that requires NAS storage.
Hello Gerald,
hello Danny,
Gerald,
thank you for your information.
Yesterday I received the ordered 8 TB SSD device (Samsung SSD 870 QVO).
Now I want to install this device in my Noon Nucleus+ (Vers.B) to replace the older 4 TB SSD.
For this process, I ask you, Danny and Gerald
please can you check the “step by step” information below.
Detail steps for changing the smaler internal Music Drive to an larger new one:
Actual Process Step, Version from Gerald_Schrader 21 May 2019:
-
Backup Roon database.
-
Go to Nucleus log-out page: Log out of Nucleus (Go to Settings, General and click Logout)
-
Shut down Nucleus.
-
Disconnect the Nucleus from the electric power
-
Remove / replace internal storage SSD to an larger one.
-
Connect the Nucleus to the electric power.
-
Power up Nucleus.
-
Go to Nucleus web admin page 192.168.1.xxx: 1.-stop the server software.
-
From Nucleus web admin page 192.168.1.xxx: format new SSD with nucleus.
-
From Nucleus web admin page 192.168.1.xxx: 2.-stop the server software.
-
Copy music files across the network from the storage backup location (PC) to new internal SSD in Nucleus.
-
From Nucleus web admin page 192.168.1.xxx: restart server software.
-
Go to Nucleus log-in page: Log in of Nucleus (Go to Settings, General and click Login)
-
restore Roon database
Danny and Gerald please,
this “step by step” information must be complete and correct
Danny,
is there any current information in the KB?
Thanks for your help.
Michael
.
1 Like
Those instructions look good, most importantly:
- shut down from the admin web page
- physically swap the drive
- power up, initialize from the admin webpage, and copy your music over
Michael,
Your steps look good to me. Don’t worry, it isn’t as difficult as you might think!
Gerald
My ROON ROCK is a NUC with a M.2 SATA for the OS and a 1TB SSD for local music storage. I’ve removed the 1 TB SSD drive from the NUC and cloned it to a 2TB SSD using a Dual SATA Docking Station and AOMEI Backupper on my Windows PC. AOMEI recognized the EXT4 drive and cloned it! With 190 Mb/sec the drive was cloned, in my case 90 minutes to do it. Put the new 2TB SSD in the ROON ROCK , power-up and voilà: running with upgraded capacity!!!