Thunderbolt 4 Drive Misclassified as Internal Storage on ROCK (ref#QOK6N2)

What’s happening?

· Unable to use a Thunderbolt connected drive to a Nuc13 as documented. Instead it shows as internal storage. Is that expected?

How can we help?

· Wanting to clarify if that is what is expected, as it changes my use case

Other options

· Other

Describe the issue

When connecting a Thunderbolt 4 drive to a Rock
it shows under Internal Storage, and not under Storage as expected.

Describe your network setup

Describe your network setup
Intel Nuc NUC13ANHI7
Crucial 32 GB Ram
Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1TB
OWC Express 1M2 USB4 External SSD
with 8 TB M.2 Nvme (WD_BLACK 8TB SN850X NVMe Internal Gaming SSD Solid State Drive)
Current Roon OS and Server software

See the Internal Storage below that shows the WD_Black

Also, note the difference. If I add an external USB-A flash drive, i can see it under storage and read it. If I use an OWC 1M2 or a OWC 4M2 drive Thunderbolt drive which I have on hand, it shows under Internal Music Storage.

Note that I have two Nucleus +, two Rocks and a 14 TB NAS, and have used Roon extensively since 2018, so I understood the premise in the response the previous time I posted this question. The answer, unfortunately, is not correct. The above screenshot shows where the Rock sees it. And the nvme is not inside the Rock.

image
If you look only the stick in the USB-A flashdrive is shown.

And when you remove the EXTERNAL OWC 1M2 Thunderbolt 4 plug in drive, you see the following screen.

And if you insert another USB-A stick, it also shows up in File Explorer

image

and in the Roon UI as well. I am able to use the data from both USB-A flash drives

You are connecting a Thunderbolt adapter for use with NVMe SSD. I don’t know this affects the way Roon OS detects the drive, but I fail to understand why this is an issue since both internal and external drives are supported. The only difference is the mount point.

The drive should be formatted exFAT or ext4, and of a supported capacity for the NUC.

IIRC, Thunderbolt was added during the last major ROCK update. Prior to this, drives using the Thundebolt port utilize USB-C only.

1 Like

Hi, thanks for responding.
In reading your response, I realized what the crux of my issue was, which was the impact of the mount point and how to approach the data.
I have a library of 16 TB of data, currently kept in a NAS. I want to move it to SSD for portability and speed.

a) if it is seen as an external drive it can be formatted and updated outside of the ROCK, which is the intended design, I can update the files with another machine as it will be EXFAT or NTFS.

b) If it is an external drive, I can transfer it to another Roon Server (I have 2 Nucleus +, and i7 7th gen Rock at this time, but these dont do Thunderbolt) as needed. I have multiple locations where I run Roon.

c) If it is an internal drive, I am limited by the speed by which it can be updated, or accessed. And this slows it down by a factor of 10. This is not a show stopper, just a nuisance.

d) I actually tried it as an internal drive, and it bombed at just below one terabyte, telling me it ran out of space. It has 7.3 TB reported capacity unused. Then wiped it all out, all the data it had just transfered was gone. I know it was there, as I was browsing the contents through Roon as it was copying over, and playing a few. And the transfer was interminably long, three hours roughly for less than 1 TB before it bombed. I think that the feature is not quite sorted out.

e) As an internally mounted drive, it is formatted (which Roon asks to do to be able to use it) in a way that you are no longer able to see the files outside of it being connected to the Rock.
I copied a few (10 or so) megabytes and verified it. It was stunningly fast to search and play, as it should be. It was bandwidth limited by the network at 2.5 Gb tops, and even less in reality. I also played them in Roon. I however, was not able to see what was in it with any other device. As I have no Roon server that is able to read through a Thunderbolt port, I was unable to verify if I could see it through another Roon server. It was not readable, as expected in Windows 11.

f) The fact that it shows as an internal drive is a product defect that may work, but I wonder if that’s the story’s acceptance criteria (forgive the terminology, I am a professional Software Project Manager that works with an Agile methodology, so thats how it would technically be described). I hesitate to use it again, as its fairly difficult to transfer data to it in that way. I will do so if thats the only way, but until I am sure thats the intent, and stable, will pause that use case at this time.

I am hoping this will get fixed, but this is a way to debug it, by showing findings to address the product’s state. The workaround is inadequate, if it bombs.

If there is no resolution, or that is the intent, it would be for all to know and I will move on. As it is, the Thunderbolt port, while supported, has limitations. Again, not a complaint, but more a need for clarification so I can proceed accordingly.

Thanks for the response, hope that clarifies my concerns.

Hey @Wilfred_Fojas,

Thanks for writing in and sharing your report! We’d be happy to take a closer look under the hood on your instance of Roon Server. If you could, please use the directions found here and send over a set of logs to our File Uploader?

Let us know when you’ve successfully updated them and we’ll take a look! Thank you :+1:

I submitted the logs as requested. Hope to hear from you soon.

Hi @Wilfred_Fojas,

Thanks for sending those over! Our team reviewed them thoroughly but did not find any inconsistencies or errors where we thought we would.

You’re absolutely correct that there’s an issue here, but the good news is that it’s purely cosmetic and doesn’t affect functionality. On the web UI, your SSD connected via Thunderbolt is displayed as “internal storage” instead of just “storage.” However, rest assured, this has no impact on how the storage is used—you can continue with all your planned activities without any problems!

The drive is being shown as “internal” because of how Thunderbolt interacts with the Linux kernel.

That said, we do recommend avoiding NTFS formatting for best results. Using a native file system like ext4 or others will provide better performance and compatibility. If you’d like assistance with formatting or setup, let us know—we’re happy to help!

Thank you for attempting to help.

1 Like

Thanks for the response. I wish it was just the web ui that is wrong. In attempting to check this again yesterday, I restarted it again and did see it under Storage , and not Internal storage, as I first had. That would be odd, as nothing was changed. The system just flew, though as the throughput may have been 30x faster, even as NTFS.

I take it down again and add a terabyte of data, and when I open it again, I am again seeing it under Internal Storage and I am unable to add a Music Storage folder and map it. I suspect that internal storage disregards labelling the drive. At this point, it becomes unusable. It again prompts me to format it.
This is what I see:

and:

I compressed the logs again. It did work correctly on the second or so trial on 12/17/2024. I have again uploaded the logs.

Its in Rooserver_log15.txt. The snippet states

where 1M2_WD_OWC_Express_1M2_241026481F7E_4077-2DB8-p1 mounts.

And reading prior and subsequent logs (though i only went through two) fails to show it.

In case 1tb is the limit that Rock accepts as internal drive, try to split your SSD into multiple drives.

Try creating multiple partitions from the same SSD that are all max 1tb and mount that to your rock

But macOS and Linux don’t support NTFS if I’m not remembering things wrong and rock is basically a Linux.

It’s not. Many here are using 8TB SSDs in their Rock or Nucleus systems.

2 Likes

The Linux kernel does support NTFS these days, and I think this is part of the RoonOS kernel, too.

However, the general consensus is to use exFAT, especially if you’re likely to do lots of file operations. In my experience it works well moving or reading files between Linux on fixed drives. However, I’ve not used this with removable media.

Exfat (and most other formats) only apply to external drives. I am guessing but the Internal drives are likely ext4, which is not natively accessible in Windows or Mac Os.

Irrespective of the mount point, drives (other than the OS partition) may use exFAT, FAT32, FAT, NTFS etc.

In this particular instance, the Thunderbolt drive is mounted as if it were an internal drives, so it is displayed in the web UI. However, as @benjamin says, this is cosmetic, so you can format exFAT, and transfer the drive to another machine to copy over your music.

When transferring, power down ROCK first before disconnecting the drive. On your PC or Mac, you should use the unmount feature before removing drive.

You’ll find this approach much faster than copying over a network share.

1 Like

Yes, its SUPPOSE to work, that’s why I am asking. I am an IT professional that has decades of dev and hardware experience.

From what I see , it cant be read as internal storage UNLESS you format it as such under Roon.

USB4 drive formatted as Exfat or something else
Connected to a nuc that has a Thunderbolt 4 connector (which is a USB4 superset)
Read it in a Win11 or Win10 device (which should work even with Ext4, but I don’t have Partition Master, don’t particularly want to load WSL or Disk Internals.

Try it yourself, if you so insist that it does, and I would be thankful if you can figure what I am doing incorrrectly.

Please ignore what the web UI says, and provide screenshots from Settings > Storage.

Internal storage is automatically mounted to a network share: Internal Music Storage. An external device is found via the storage settings in the control app.

Alternatively, you could try disabling Thinderbolt support in the BIOS, and use USB-C only. For reading music files or copying over the network using Samba will not be detrimental. You may utilize Thunderbolt on the Mac when copying files.

I did. Scroll up. When i have time, i will read the Json.

To repeat what was already posted. And no, it doesn’t show.