Tried ALL the combinations between UTP, SSTP, and shielded/unshieldde switch, with shielding on both ends, shielding removed on one end and both end for both cables. Not going to waste more time here writing the details. ‘Currently’ using SSTP with the shield removed on both end for both cables in this closed system for Roon use only. There is a distinct character to what happens to the sound when you attach the ground to the network player. Similarly, there is another distinct and specific change to the sound when you introduce shielding and screens between the pairs and overall. Is that a source of distortion? Two different things at play here. I still haven’t decided which sounds better or is more correct. I just know that they sound different. Might go back to UTP through and through.
I am embarrassed to say I was totally duped in this area by the advice provided in the HiFi store where I frequent - spend quite of money on very expensive ethernet cables and the rest. I have very good friend who is an engineer and specialises in computer network consultancies for large corporates - his advice was along your lines and he brought some cheap ethernet cables - we did the tests in terms of listening - I was trying really hard to listen for better sound (my listening bias was looking for “more bass” blah blah) - guest what – no difference, felt stupid on how I was duped particularly after my friend explained the science (I am a lawyer in fin services, so no idea about this!!) - lesson learnt on not always listening to the sales dude in HiFi stores!
Just got back home after a business trip. Took Saturday to go out to Denver and hang for the day with someone hears differences in different Ethernet cables.
When it came around to doing bias controlled evaluation of a $13, 100 foot, Ethernet cable, and their boutique cable they only hit 60%. When it was sighted the listener could hear all manner of changes.
Later on using Tidal I showed them that the entire Album was already cached in 10 seconds by starting the song, removing the cable and the song played for the duration. It was a really good conversation after that because they couldn’t tell me when the cable was back in or out of the system.
Thats a funny story, yes my lesson has well and truly been learnt in this area! Off topic - I have a little office in Denver, nice little city, always look for an excuse in winter so I can tie in skiing on the beautiful mountains with business! However have struggled to find a good expresso -
I was very impressed with Denver when I visited a friend in Colorado Springs in 2006 and stayed in Denver with a cousin for several days in 2009. What a gorgeous city! The art scene, the culture, the condos built on the location of the former airport were all very impressive. And, as I recall, I spotted a very upscale hi-fi store in Denver with a very nice system anchored in gorgeous, piano lacquered speakers.
Clicking on this link can seriously damage your health. There’s a good chance you might laugh your head off…
If you’re a sound engineer, you’ll be pleased to hear that all you have to do to achieve excellent SQ in your recordings is to use an ethernet cable for 700 bucks…
Now I finally know why so many recordings are just lousy…
Why the sarcasm? The guys on the review mentioned no brand, tried to sell nothing. They simply told you what they experienced. And they appear to be somewhat professional on Audio. Nothing wrong with that. At least they tried. Did you?
Sarcasm, derived from the Greek verb “σαρκάζειν” (meaning “to tear flesh”), is commonly defined as a form of verbal aggression aiming at hurting your interlocutor’s feelings by bitter words. In this sense, I definitely didn’t use any sarcasm in the post you replied to. Quite obviously, my interlocutor, @Cheung_Hon_Wah, wasn’t the target of my criticism. My irony was exclusively directed at the authors of the article we’re discussing here. How could I possibly have hurt their feelings…?
Yes, actually. I’m currently working on my postdoctoral thesis in this field. I’m a member of an international research team constructing and performing scientifically valid/reliable listening tests to find out whether test subjects can actually hear such differences (cables, amps, Hi Res vs. CD quality etc.). Against this background, I’m more than skeptical about the following anecdotal description and the conclusions drawn from it:
“We decided to use the Red cable for the new mixes of Story of Ghosts… and we proceeded to mix. As I started the mix process, I noticed myself eq-ing the sound. Something was wrong… then Patrick said, “ooops… sorry, forgot to switch back to the Red cable”. I took the eq’s out and the sound was glorious again. It was one of the more effortless mixes I’ve done to date.”
Among experts, understood as people involved in academic research on this subject matter, it is universally acknowledged that the differences in sound quality achieved by replacing one cable with another is FAR too small to be that easily discernible or to have such dramatic effects! From hundreds of double-blind ABX listening tests my team and I carried out and evaluated we think we can draw the following conclusions:
a) Some test subjects actually have the ability to tell cables apart (but don’t reach a score higher than 65%).
b) The overwhelming majority (about 80 %) of test subjects can’t prove they hear any difference (i.e. they reach a score of about 50% — despite intact hearing and specific listening training).
What my team and I are trying to gain a better understanding of is how this variation in people’s abilities to discern such differences can be accounted for.
To cut a long story short, I’ve never been an advocate of “if you can’t measure it or explain it, then it doesn’t exist”. However, as a professional musician, who has his own recording studio, and as a researcher in the field under discussion, I have very good reasons to be extremely skeptical about an article trying to sell me that swapping ethernet cables can have a similar impact on the SQ of a recording as the use of an equalizer.
“Ignorant and happy” vs. “wise and unhappy”? — that’s a tough decision! When Thomas Gray wrote this, it was meant as a nostalgic reflection on his childhood and youth, when he had every right to be ignorant. Things change when you’re an adult, as we all know…
You can wrap this in academia all you want to (and I laud your effort), but you can’t ignore the basic fact that quality audio cabling is blue. No exception – this being about a red cable is a dead giveaway.
Appreciate your latest post, it is respectful and contains some valid points.
And my point regarding the Gray quote are twofold, firstly i consider myself and others here as somewhat ignorant, in the sense of ”not knowing”. Perhaps thats the wrong expression but english is not my tounge.
And secondly i try not to ridicule other peoples experiences, how irrelevant they may seem. There are so many posters online that hold ”the truth, the only truth”.
I am open to unmeasureable phenomena and not yet scientifically proved effects, and i’d like to retain that.
That said, i also find it very hard to believe that ethernet cables carrying packet based information could possibly affect the contents of these packets. Unless the cables are so badly constructed that packet loss is measureable or perhaps transfer noise over the screen/ground or similar.
Although these figures may seem low, they are still significant to me. Even if only some people can hear such a difference, if it means business for my employer and our partners (including Roon Labs), then it is significant to me. For the company that makes $90000 DAC, I’m sure every single one of their customers are regarded as important. I’ve even heard a rumor that their boss personally flown to my region to deliver their first unit to the first customer here.
