Not sure what kind of sound improvement would soemeone wish from ROON. As long as it is faithfully sending lossless bits to my DAC with minimum jitter I require nothing else. I will take it from there.
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That is actually the issue.
« I want more SQ »
« This software is reproducing bit per bit EVERYTING AND EXACTLY EVERYTHING that is in your file/stream to your DAC »
« I still want more SQ »
« Maybe check your DAC ? »
« My DAC is perfect, it costs thousands and it says it has 0.00000.3% distortion. Thatâs a very very small number, itâs good. And it has a separate atomic clock that synchronize to the rings of Jupiter. No, my DAC is out of the equation. And I have 7 DAC at home, I know it is the best sounding one. I know I want more SQ from Roon because when I use Winamp on my Windows 95 machine that I built and using 2 SPDIF cables that split left and right channels, it sounds so much better. Please note that I donât use USB of course. I am also absolutely sure the SPDIF cables are plugged following the little arrow on them. They are also connected to my Ultra Linear 1.79 power supply »
« I see. Ok, so you want us to change the data to actually improve your music somehow? »
« No, no, no, donât touch my music. I want it exactly as it is. I just want more SQ »
« How are we supposed to improve the sound quality if we donât change anything? »
« I want my music exactly as it is but better »
« Oh ok, I understand now. Be sure it will be implemented in the next update »
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Hence the improvementâŠ
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Bit perfect is nothing when the timing of the dataflow is jittery.
Reducing Jitter is always a nice goal for getting better SQ.
Roon/RAAT doesnât introduce jitter, the software removes jitter as part of its architecture with buffers and sending data to the endpoint on demand (using the clock at the endpoint as a guide).
If you have jitter problems, look somewhere between and including your endpoint and DAC.
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We donât know if the OP has problems with jitter, he just asked for better SQ.
There are may be some problems to fix in his set up outside of ROON, just speculation since no more infos available.
It was a general comment like yours since someone started talking about jitter, not addressing OP.
Correct. Itâs really the transmission of the data thatâs the issue - and the fact that noise also comes along for the ride.
Something everyone should try if they are using a decent outboard DAC. Start a song playing then have someone pull the Ethernet cable. The music will continue to play from the buffer but youâll get a sense how detrimental network activity can be to the music. Most of the naysayers who have posted here wonât try this and even if they did they wonât hear a difference as their belief that only bit perfection matters likely ended then with up a system with a noise floor too high to hear a difference. But itâs not just ones and zeroes that travel down a USB cable. Itâs an analog signal and itâs turned from/to digital by comparing it to a reference voltage. And in the real world noise can alter when that reference voltage threshold is crossed.
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True. To quote a wise person (okay, a wise guy, LOL):
âNo network is better than no networkâ
You are spot on with your suggestion but of course the user experience stinks! I love Roon and want to be able to use Roon - but I want it to sound as good as other solutions that donât cause as much network activity. Roonâs busyness is part of why we love Roon but it is likely what is also hindering its sound quality.
Ah, it took 70 posts, but the trope that those who canât hear a difference donât have systems (another variant is ears) good enough to hear the difference has finally been postedâŠ
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Itâs not a trope - itâs a fact. Itâs basic science that the system under test has to be resolving enough to allow differences to be observed. My own system wasnât revealing enough even just five years ago.
And yes listening skills matter too. Occamâs razer tells us that often the simplest answer is the correct one. We must start by confirming that both the listener and his/her system are up to the task of sorting out the differences we are talking about. Those of you who fail one or both of these tests are quick to react the way you did with mock outrage as a way to deflect from the elephant in the room.
Fact is if one believes bit perfect is all that matters they will likely have ended up assembling a system that makes that the only thing that does matter.
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Some of what you have said is true, except for this statement which is a pure speculative assumption, not fact.
Occamâs razor not withstanding. 
Well said as far as âspeculative assumptionâ. Thatâs accurate.
I look at my two-channel system as a âprecision instrumentâ that delivers a tremendous amount of goodness. The downside though it makes too obvious the harm being done by something in the signal path.
But what about those who havenât aimed for a system that isnât a precision instrument? Well they arenât going to hear these things. My home theater system fits that bill. Roon sounds nice down there but itâs simply not resolving enough for many differences to emerge. I didnât set out for that system to be that way. I just wanted movies to be fun to watch.
Itâs helpful for us to be honest with ourselves as to which kind of system we have. All these posts where individuals report that Roon sounds good enough for them are wonderful to see. But why not allow room for Roon to impress even more with better gear? Itâs not like you are going to have to pay any more for a better sounding Roon. All the better that this product improves as maybe one day you will come to appreciate improved sound quality, despite not thinking there was any way it could get better.
Since you donât know the quality of the listeners or their systems, to argue that is why they canât hear the difference, begs the question. You see the problem with that logic, right?
Statements like
or
or
donât have any meaning, as a logical argument. Theyâre just bald statements.
The problem with Occamâs razor is determining what is the simplest explanation and in this case the simplest explanation is that people donât hear a difference because there is no difference. Speculating about the quality of ears or systems only complicates the explanation.
Thatâs why people who understand the flaws in Occamâs razor donât try to use it to buttress their argument.
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Youâre taking the Michael, right? BTW, itâs a razor. Furthermore, the principle of the razor is to choose the solution that relies the least on assumptions.
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I donât think Roon is at issue, I have very good gear and Roon sounds incredible. If Roon can improve things, thatâs great for everyone but I donât think they have anything to improve. I am not even tempted by audiophile Switches, fancy cables and the like. The file is delivered to your buffer bit perfect, thatâs all it has to do. After that, the sound is all in your systems hands. The Room acoustic is also important.
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What I stated to be fact was that the system and the listener matter and that science demands that these be factored in.
I also offered the opinion that many who donât think Roon can sound any better probably have systems that make that true.
I agree Roon sounds âincredibleâ. Itâs flaws become revealed only when compared to other products.
I have an Innuos Zenith. There are several playback modes available - and I can easily switch between them. I started with âRoon Coreâ. It sounded incredible. Out of curiosity I disabled Roon and listened to the Innuos internal player, which is an optimized version of Squeezelite. This brings an easy to hear improvement over Roon Core. Itâs how Iâm listening right now.
Innuos heard from several customers about how much better the internal player sounded. They were challenged to try to get Roon to sound as good. They came up with what they call âRoon Experimentalâ mode. This runs both Roon Core and their internal player. Roon doesnât play the song itself, Squeezelite plays it. Again itâs easy to hear that this sound better than Roon Core mode. But itâs also easy to hear that Roon turned off sounds even better.
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OK, I guess itâs a difference in what these words mean to us.
Iâm out.