Definitely one of the mysteries in digital audio to me is how jplay iOS or hqplayer client can sound different compared to roon, even after doing all of these - hqplayer desktop, fitlet3 spf as NAA, usb out to intona to dacs.
The fact is I know that jplay iOS is serving as a remote control over hqplayer API so it should and does sound the same. I do not know if anyone knows how Roon does its processing before digital streams get to hqp …
I think many do. In the case of a standard Flac file it unpacks the source file/stream wrapper, and if all dsp processing is off it sends the exact same PCM bitstream to HQP that is inside the flac file that HQP would otherwise receive directly. HQP gets exactly the same pcm audio in either case. I verified this myself recently. I don’t think it’s a big mystery.
Not to further take this thread off topic but I have been experimenting today comparing HQ player with Roon vs HQ player with the new JPlay iOS app…this allows near instantaneous A/B comparisons…my non-audiophile sig other picked JPlay 5 of 5 times with various genres of music and samples both from local files and Qobuz…so is JPlay “right” when they claim they sound better than “others” due to lower network utilization?
My set up:
sonictransporter i9 with HqPlayer embedded—ethernet—ultrarendu—curious USB cable—RME ADI Dac 2 FS (AKM)—unbalanced RCA—anthem amp—goldenear triton one.R
Roon controlled with M4 ipad pro; hqplayer settings dsd 256, polysyncgauss hires-lp, asdm7ecv3
JPlay utilizing minim server on my sonictransporter and qobuz controlled via the JPlay app on my M4 iPad.
I wanted roon to “win”…but it was pretty instantly apparent that JPlay with HqPlayer provided greater clarity and tighter bass than Roon with HQPlayer with all settings same (and level matched with SPL meter…which they were same level so no volume adjustment needed). I had tested a similar A vs B back in Oct when Audirvanna launched their Linux beta and sonictransporter supported it…but in that comparo I called a draw as I couldn’t tell a difference…and Roon remains a superior interface to Audirvanna IMO…JPlay looks alot like Roon so for critical listening maybe it slightly wins out in my system today…though Roon still has Arc, OPRA, etc. that sets it apart from Jplay.
Thoughts? Anybody else done this comparo and felt roon won? I dont have an Intona to put in the mix but not sure how that would change the outcome…both either would or wouldnt benefit and didnt think it would help my set up given both galvonic isolation in the ultrarendu and RME Dac…everything also has their own linear power supplies…router, eero mesh, sonictransporter, ultrarendu and Rme dac!
Thanks
Doug
Thanks. Like I mentioned, my network setup is very similar. I have tested this with 5 dacs in my four systems, I have 3 speaker systems and a headphone system and my impression mirror yours re: jplay iOS vs roon to hqp.
In fact when I shared the jplay iOS integration with three of my friends who are roon lifetime subscribers, I did not mention anything to them about my noted sound quality differences. They all told me they had since bought the jplay lifetime subscription as they also noted the differences …
I dunno folks, maybe we’ll all discover one day that HQP has a bug and processes raw PCM data from Roon streams differently from the same PCM data it extracts from a direct file/stream. Ha
Thanks, Deric! Well glad I am not the only one who is hearing this! I am a lifetime subscriber to Roon so I’m not going anywhere as I’ve been in since the very beginning 9 yrs ago! But now I’m contemplating buying a subscription to Jplay (to add to my Audirvana since I’ve had that since I got my 1st mac mini in 2010) as I’m currently in the 14 day trial…figure a lifetime maybe a bargain at $150 since I can def hear a diff and cheaper than an intona or regen type Usb device, etc.
D
As a matter of fact, all the comments from my audio buddies and various forums seem to align with our impression as well. The only one comment I got from one of my friend who favors roon sound. He has a Spring 3 kte direct to a purifi power amp. He told me he did not like the sound of jplay iOS being too clean, too detailed in his already very transparent and neutral sounding system. He said he much prefer roon adding a bit more warmth to the sound and is less detailed. At the end of the day, it’s probably system dependent and a matter of preference
Yeah, that might be the difference. Would be interested to have more people do the comparison and give their thoughts. Even though my significant other picked JPlay every time for me during at least one of the comparisons I thought I did prefer room for exactly the reason you said. I thought that JPlay sounded a bit too clinical and studio like clarity and rather preferred the added warmth that Room gave to one of the Norah Jones tracks I demoed. But on some other tracks, I felt the sound didn’t have the definition that Jplay did and roon sounded more smeared/muddy/overly warm…could to have choice and very easy to switch between on my man cave set up…now need to test on the upstairs Kef Ls50W2 setup!
A post was split to a new topic: PCM settings for R/2R
I don’t use Intona between Holo Red and T+A DAC200. And you shouldn’t use shielded ethernet cable but u/utp unshielded one to not screw the isolation. But I was talking about bigger picture. Streamer, and especially the used PSU, still matters since it’s connected to the rest of the system. Even the used USB cable does.
And about the Roon vs JPLAY. I read somewhere that Roon extracts files to PCM before streaming to HQP while other software sends the files as it is. A small difference in processing. This might have something to do with the experienced differences in sound.
This is way offtopic, sorry.
My mistake - I meant unshielded and have added a correction to that post.
That’s the whole point of something like an Intona - the power supply(s) used upstream of it won’t matter. Nor for that matter will the Ethernet.
That was very likely me and is correct. The difference is that HQP has to unwrap the Flac container from a direct file to get the raw PCM data where as Roon sends it already as raw PCM. If anything you would HQP has less do with a Roon stream.
Fair enough, I’ll leave it at that. Happy listening.
I do not agree. Sorry, but I do not. There is a difference. Both woth Roon on separate pc and with boh Roon and HQP on very same pc. The do sound apart and for the better I mean from HQP proprietary player controlled from HQP Client.
For anyone wondering about AMD performance, I can do any 512 modulator at 1024x48 no problem with a 9950X @ 5.9GHz (undervolted+overclock) + RTX 4080. My 4090 is in my gaming PC but I think if I swap it out I should also be able to do DAC correction.
Sometimes there is a difference. Like if you play for example MP3 stream, I know it will be different.
But I’m not sure if Roon uses same decoding always on all OS. Because on Linux it uses ffmpeg for at least some things, but I don’t know what it uses on other platforms. ffmpeg in itself is a bit of a nightmare.
When you play with Client or JPlay, or HQPDcontrol, neither one is involved with the actual audio data.
6 posts were split to a new topic: Differences between JPlayer or Roon into HQP
8 posts were split to a new topic: Version 5.10 Windows (large filters, 512 + DSD)
Hi all,
I’m currently using:
Output: SDM
Rate Limit: 24576000 (DSD512)
Bit Rate: Auto (Auto Rate Family on)
Modulator: AMSDM7EC 512+fs
1x: sinc-MGa
Nx: poly-sinc-gauss-hires-lp
DAC Bits: 20
DAC Correction on (Holo May NOS mode)
I’ve been reading the subjective impressions of modulators with interest. I keep coming back to AMSDM7EC 512+fs. It’s older than the v3 EC modulators but in my system it gives a heft to the music that offsets the tendency for DSD to sound ethereal or light. Its also a bit lighter on the computation than the v3, which assists with sinc-MGa for 1x with DAC correction.
I recently tried PCM upsampled to 1536000 for a time using closed-form-M and sinc-MGa but found it a bit flat and reverted to SDM as above.
If people have the time I’d be interested to know how they hear AMSDM7EC 512+fs compared to other mods.
6 posts were split to a new topic: DAC Bits for R/2R DACs
helo
i too utilize this modulator to this day
i believe all to be system dependent as i have found differing combos other than it for other headpieces i trial with from aurorus australis and borealis
each having specific traits that one can tailor to
most notably the closed australis i was able to find alternate combo to alleviate closed cup reflection effect that i discovered upon first listen
for my headpiece and this modulator
i also find same as you which brings unparalleled spatial heft in total soundscape coherency
i try many others on occasion and have not been able to improve on the characteristics at 1024 by other combos even while dropping rates with dac correction
10 posts were split to a new topic: Performance and ecores (offloading DAC corrections)