Why spend the extra money for a Nucleus rather than a less expensive desktop computer?

[AndersVinberg]

A general purpose computer requires management.
When computers were expensive we accepted this.
(I am particularly sensitive to this because I spent decades working on systems management.)
Single purpose appliances are better, even though they usually have computers in them.
My house is now littered with small Linux boxes, all single purpose devices.
When I moved back in after a thorough remodel, the fridge wanted the wifi password. And the oven, and the washer and dryer, and the garage door openers, and the grill, and the baby monitor, and the toaster. And several audio endpoints.

How many times have I logged into my Nucleus or my MicroRendu or my Chord streamer? How many times have I patched it, or otherwise futzed with it?
The same as for the fridge and the oven and the grill: none.

If you have to futz with your gadgets, you don’t own them, they own you.

[mitr (Kal Rubinson)]

Ah! Sometimes, I think we need a sarcasm flag for some posts.

[Marian (I stand with Ukraine)]

@AndersVinberg

A general purpose computer requires management.

That is a thing of the past. In any case, a general purpose computer that runs only Roon core is not any more general than a ROCK or Nucleus.

[BCBC (Somewhere in British Columbia)]

One. A power button.

[macrog (Andrew)]

The 3 reasons to consider a Nucleus for me are

1 - No moving parts no fans, no mechanic hard drives (positive from both durability and noise perspective)
2 - More responsive because its only doing Roon (but doing it well)
3 - Its pretty

I never got the sense when I ran a Mac Mini that it was designed to be turned on 24/7

1 big reason against buying a Nucleus is that it looks like its going to be updated soon and I hate having an out of date model

Andrew

[Fernando_Pereira]

@Bill_Janssen

I understood we were talking about a PC running, say, Linux, configured to do just one thing, running the Roon Core. Just like the Nucleus is a Linux PC configured to do just one thing, running the Roon Core. Maybe I misunderstood.

Standard OS distributions have a lot of auxiliary stuff with them. Most of the time an automatic update works, but not always. Been running my own machines for decades, and I’ve seen update breakage with every single OS I used. The Linux distro that comes with Nucleus is tailored for appliance-style use and update, which is very different from out-of-the-box OS distribution.

[Fernando_Pereira]

@macrog

I never got the sense when I ran a Mac Mini that it was designed to be turned on 24/7

Example I experienced recently: I’ve configured my Mini M1 with auto login and other tweaks so that can run headless and be managed remotely via VNC. Great until I decided to update to macOS 12.5, and I could not connect to it even though it was there on the network. Had to connect a keyboard and monitor, and log in that way, after which everything seems to be back to “normal.” More generally, macOS is really, really resistant to totally unattended server use. At least my Linux boxes have not needed a monitor and keyboard since initial Ubuntu Server installation (and BIOS/UEFI configuration), even though I’ve moved them through several LTS releases, but they aren’t fully appliance-like whatever folks may optimistically claim.

[Henry_McLeod (Henry)]

@Marian

The closest you can get to a turn key system is to buy a machine with a pre-installed OS on it - whether it’s a NUC, regular PC, laptop or Mac - and install Roon core on it.

Nucleus is a turn key Roon appliance. Not close to. A NUC with ROCK isn’t turn key despite having near identical form and functionality to a Nucleus because of the DIY element. Anything you have to take steps to make it work other than simply plug in and update isn’t a turn key Roon appliance. And going back to the OP’s original point, the only two reasons to buy a Nucleus is because you want a Roon appliance, or you just want a Nucleus for the kudos. Perfectly valid reasons in the HiFi world.

[Scrufftyguy]

@macrog

1 big reason against buying a Nucleus is that it looks like its going to be updated soon and I hate having an out of date model

Hi. Where have you heard this? I’ve not seen it reported anywhere. Thanks.

[robert_pearson]

I understand it is best to keep your core device, Nuc, or Mac well away from your other HiFi gear. Ideally near the router or another room. So mixed in with your gear is not such a good option.

[xxx (Banned - toxicity)]

@robert_pearson

I understand it is best to keep your core device, Nuc, or Mac well away from your other HiFi gear.

Not necessarily true. It depends on how much fan noise it produces and that’s really the only consideration.

@robert_pearson

Ideally near the router

Don’t need to be near the router. Anywhere it can get on your network is good, i.e. using a switch is OK.

[robert_pearson]

OK, Thanks. I understood it to be possible electrical interference issues as well. But if it is fan noise and you have no fan then👍.

[Rugby (aka Daniel or Big Dan)]

I locate my servers in a basement office. Since it is out of sight and out of hearing, the PC can be any form you want. Even a large tower with fans.

[crowlem]

Not sure why anyone would get a nucleus when the Mac mini exists.

I understood the argument that it’s a turn key experience pre M1 Mac mini.

Now, a Mac mini is $2000 cheaper than a nucleus and only requires the user to boot up the machine and install Roon.

[wizardofoz (Mr Fix It aka The Wiz)]

You can try a macmini for 2 weeks and return it before the 2 weeks is up if you get on the apple online store or apple shop if you have one near by.

[Martin_Webster]

@robert_pearson

I understand it is best to keep your core device, Nuc, or Mac well away from your other HiFi gear.

That’s what I do, because I have a networked endpoint. However, there’s nothing wrong with a silent PC or Nucleus feeding a DAC directly.

[BCBC (Somewhere in British Columbia)]

@macrog

I never got the sense when I ran a Mac Mini that it was designed to be turned on 24/7

The Mini Server is exactly that, meant to run 24/7. I run a 2012 Mini Server unattended without issue.
BTW M1 Mini is fanless and has no mechanical hard drives.

[Bill_Janssen (Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)]

@crowlem

Not sure why anyone would get a nucleus when the Mac mini exists.

Apologies to all Apple fans, but I’m not sure why anyone would get a Mac Mini and use emulation of x86 processing when things like the Lenovo ThinkCentre M70q Tiny Desktop exist. Cheaper, runs Roon in native mode instead of emulated, Windows OS matches .NET infrastructure of Roon.

Again, not quite turnkey, you have to download Roon and install it after receiving your PC. Same as the Mini.

[crowlem]

@Bill_Janssen

things like the Lenovo ThinkCentre M70q Tiny Desktop exist

2 things:

1. this will have a fan which does matter when we are talking about equipment that could be placed in a listening room.

Edit: apparently the Mac mini does have a fan, so both have a deficit vs the nucleus in that regard.

2. according to the specs “ * Intel® Pentium® Gold G6400T Processor (3.40 GHz, 2 Cores, 4 Threads, 4 MB Cache)”, it doesn’t actually hit the recommended requirements (i3 or above) to run Roon.

Now I’m sure you can opt for higher CPUs but at that point;

It costs more than the Mac mini

It doesn’t have the level of service Apple does (we are focusing on low effort, easy to use service / products)

It doesn’t perform anywhere near as well.

Bearing in mind the Mac mini CPU will embarrass (running native, only matches using Rosetta) an i7 let alone the piddly pentium in that thing.

[DaveN]

@BCBC

BTW M1 Mini is fanless

No it’s not, but it’s totally inaudible during normal operation.

Mac Mini M1 fan experiences

That research is wrong: [2020-m1-mac-mini-unboxing-cooling-fan-connector] Both the M1 mini and the M1 MacBook Pro have fans – it’s rare to hear them though. Only the MacBook Air is fanless.