Zone(s) intermittently disappearing and reappearing

Support
1

Roon Core Machine

Mac mini (Late 2014), MacOS 12.6.6. 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7. 8GB RAM

Networking Gear & Setup Details

Ethernet, using a Netgear ProSafe switch. No VPN

Connected Audio Devices

Meridian 218 (issue is mainly with this zone)
Meridian MS200 x2
Meridian ID40

Number of Tracks in Library

50,987 tracks

Description of Issue

Zones intermittently disappear, causing music to stop during playback. If no music playing, looking at the Audio tab in settings shows that all the zones are intermittently disappearing and reappearing. These are all zones connected via ethernet. This is not the case with zones that are physically connected within the system, such as a USB headphone amplifier connected to a Mac that is not the core.

Issue can sometimes be resolved by rebooting the core. However, it is becoming more and more unstable over time, such that my listening time is now decreasing as it’s becoming too unreliable

4

Hi @thompo,

Thanks for writing in! Could you please reproduce the issue and share the specific date, time and name of the track playing when the issue occurs?

Once you let me know this info, I’ll go ahead and enable diagnostics for your account so I can review the logging for clues.

If you’d rather do it yourself manually, please use the directions found here and send over a set of logs to our File Uploader.

Thanks!

5

Hi,

The problems has just reoccured at 15:16GMT on 11 January 2024. I have uploaded the log files as per the directions using my username.

Thanks,

Peter

7

Hey @thompo,

Thanks for sharing that info!

As a first step, please try refreshing your RoonServer install entirely by taking the following steps:

  • Make a Backup of your current RoonServer Database
  • Exit out of RoonServer
  • Navigate to your RoonServer’s Database Location
  • Find the folder that says “RoonServer”
  • Rename the “RoonServer” folder to “RoonServer_old”
  • Reinstall the RoonServer App from our Downloads Page to generate a new RoonServer folder
  • On the Roon Remotes, press “Use another Roon Server” and connect to the new database

Additionally, are you able to clarify the following about both your library and playback patterns?

  1. Do you have any third-party antivirus software installed on your RoonServer device?
  2. Does this issue occur when you’ve queued content manually (such as an entire album), or during Roon Radio sessions? If you experience this symptom primarily during Roon Radio sessions, what happens if you limit Roon Radio to library items only? See the dropdown menu in the bottom right of the Queue page to limit Roon Radio to library.
  3. Does this occur on all Zones? What happens if you play to the system output on the mac, or the speakers on a mobile device?
  4. How many custom tags (if any) do you estimate you’ve applied to your library, in total?
8

Hi,

I’ve created a new install. Should I restore from the backup or keep completely fresh for the moment?

In answer to your questions, please see below:

  1. There is no anti-virus installed on the RoonServer device
  2. There appears to be no difference between manually queued content from my library or a Room Radio session
  3. It occurs primarily in one zone (the one I spend most of my listening in). However, I have noticed it in other zones as well
  4. I have very few custom tags, a couple at most
9

Hey @thompo,

For now, only reply on Tidal content for testing purposes, so keep the database fresh. Let me know the track, date and time the next your issue occurs. Thank you! :+1:

10

Hi, it’s been more stable but problem reoccured on 29th January 2024 at 13:17 GMT.

Peter

11

Hey @thompo,

Thanks for the follow-up! We’re unable to connect to your Roon Server device to enable diagnostic mode, could you please use the directions found here and send over a set of logs to our File Uploader?

Thanks!

12

Thanks,

I have used your File Uploader and uploaded the file using my email address. There were several outages following the one that I notified you about.

Best,

Peter

13

Hi @thompo,

Thanks for sending those over! We’re seeing most logs filled with connectivity and bandwidth related errors.

As a next step, I think it’d be crucial to test out hardwiring the troublesome endpoint / zone and see if the issue persists.

Is this switch managed or unmanaged? Let’s also temporarily bypass this piece of network gear to test out if you still run into connectivity issues.

Let me know, thanks! :+1:

14

Hi,

I bypassed the switch as best as I could. It was relatively stable for a while but then I started getting the dropouts again. I’ve uploaded the logs once more. I haven’t experienced any dropouts in other zones, but I use them less frequently. They are still going through the switch.

Best,

Peter

15

Hey @thompo,

I’m not seeing anything on our end - would you mind either bringing your server back online and we can enable diagnostic mode, or, try to resend the log packet over?

Were you able to eliminate any wifi between the system?

16

Hi,

I’ve left the server running so hopefully you can access that. It looks like the File Uploader was freezing, so I have also sent the logs from another machine.

There is no wifi in the system, with the exception of the Roon Remotes, one of which has a headphone amplifier attached. I have been using that with no problems at all.

Peter

18

Hi @thompo,

Apologies for the delay in following up. We were able to review your Roon Server logs and found the following traces:

Critical: scx: System.Net.Sockets.SocketException (50): Network is down

We’re seeing repeating traces signifying that UPnP / discovery withing your local network is dropping devices, causing them to expire and most likely disappear from Roon. The downside of this it that it isn’t giving us as specific information as I’d hoped, and so we’re still needing to further investigate your local network for potential causes around the constant expiring of devices.

One thing specific to the 218 that we see frequently - please double-check that the DHCP settings from the Meridian GUI match the DHCP settings from your router.

19

Thanks for the update.

I’ve checked the 218 settings and they match those of the router. One thing I had not noticed is that the 218 was not on a static IP address, as I have done with both the RoonServer machine and the other Meridian devices on my network.

Peter

20

Thanks @thompo,

Here’s what we know on the 218’s:

The team has worked diligently to pursue intermittent reports of playback failure on the 218 since these reports first emerged over the last several years. This investigation has generated an enormous pool of data. Our senior development team has investigated on multiple occasions and found no mechanism within Roon to cause the failures as described.

Senior development revisited this investigation this month and has again reached the same conclusion.

There are simply no further actionable steps Roon can take from a tech support perspective on this particular report. Our Partners team has passed the investigation to Meridian and any fix is in their jurisdiction; there’s nothing we can fix in Roon.

If there is a change in symptoms or you are experiencing the issue more broadly with other Zones, we’ll happily continue to troubleshoot. :pray:

21

If I’m honest, a possible problem with the Meridian equipment doesn’t surprise me. I have had consistent product failures over the past few years.

I am still experiencing issues with the other zones. I used one this morning with a (Meridian!) MS200 and it dropped out on the first track played. The 218 has just dropped out twice within the space of a minute or so.

I don’t really know what to do with this. It’s steadily getting worse over the years and there haven’t been any changes to the network. It we could pinpoint it to something within my network or the Roon Core itself, then I’m happy to look at replacing parts of that.

Peter

22

Just my thoughts: To me this sounds like failing hardware. Electronics age and may get faulty over time. All electronics are affected but well designed ones may last for decades (also depending on usage and environment conditions). Given the research already done by Roon Labs, it seems unlikely that the issue is located on your Roon Server. Network switches may be a possible source, especially if they are already over a decade in service, but quality ones form major brands are usually built to last (much longer).

While my Meridian equipment from before the “Sooloos” time is still going strong. I’ve got rid of my newer G-line equipment (that was current around the “Soolooos” time IIRC) when it started to show hardware issues. So likely it’s your Meridian equipment too that shows signs of (premature) ageing and needs to be fixed or replaced.