Are dropouts inevitable? Is any number tolerable? Just bought whole new system

I just bought a new Mac Mini M1 w/ 16gb of RAM, have it connected by ethernet to an Orbi Satellite (Verizon FIOS). The setup is used for Roon w/ Tidal EXCLUSIVELY and gets reliable upload/download speeds of nearly 100mb/s and I am STILL getting occasional dropouts (ie., ~1 sec of music disruption). It only happens a few times a day but it’s still infuriating. I bought the new Mac b/c I was getting very frequent glitches w/ my 2014 Mac Mini, so I figured this would solve it completely.

Are drop-outs simply unavoidable? I’d hate to tear up my system if this is as good as I should expect. Here’s a pic of my connection.

Thx…

FWIW, in my system i have absolutly no dropouts, hickups or other anomalies.
When such occur, it is mainly caused by network problems, misconfiguration or simply not adhering to Roon minimum specs.
100Mb/s is more than enough.

Is your Core wired or wireless, do you have misconfigured networking devices etc.

Some info on what your network consists of can give clues on how to solve the issue.
How are components, clients, endpoints connected etc…

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Thanks for replying Peter. What more add’l info would be helpful? I have FIOS Router on our lower level connected to an expensive ORBI satellite which is synced w/ two other satellites around the house. The Mac Mini is connected via Ethernet cable to one of the satellites. When tested, the upload/download speeds are very high (nearly 100mb/s). And I have zero problems with all the other devises connected to this wifi system. As for the Roon/ Tidal settings, I show a pic… Is there a particular setting w/in Roon and Tidal??

Dropouts are definitely not inevitable and shouldn’t be tolerated. WiFi connections are problematic for Roon.

Yoiur intranet is probably the factor here, not internet up/down speeds.

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If I start getting a few dropouts, I reboot my AT&T U-Verse router and I’m good for another week or so with no dropouts.

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I see the Cambridge is connected directly to the Mac.
At least for troubleshooting purposes, are you able to connect the Mac directly to your router via Ethernet?
Roon tends to work best if the Core is connected directly via Ethernet.

I used to have similar issues using a mesh network and directly connecting my Core to my router via Ethernet solved it.

Edit: What Jim said.
Sometimes a full reboot of everything can help.
Turn everything off.
Power up, in this order: Router, Orbis, Mac, waiting for each device to boot before powering the next.

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Thanks …I will definitely try to reboot. As for directly connecting my Roon core to the router via ethernet, it would be a huge hassle. …Doable, but a hassle. …I really hope doing this - either temporarily or permanently - isn’t required to get this working flawlessly. …My son’s play War Hammer Darktide - often both at the same time - w/out any glitches, how could Roon/ Tidal be any more challenging?

Is this error (small red box) I see on Tidal somehow relevant?? …I don’t recall ever seeing this before switching to the new Mac Mini and setting the system back up.

I know it seems illogical and I don’t have the technical expertise to explain why (someone else may be able to or you could search the forums) but Roon can be more demanding on networks than gaming or 4K video.

I’m not certain that having wifi between your core and the internet is the issue here but it was for me and others thus my suggestion to at least try direct Ethernet and see if that resolves it.

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As said here. Core should be wired.

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I haven’t used the Tidal app in years but I suspect that error is because another source app (Roon?) is already playing to your DAC.
The other app would need to be stopped to use the Tidal app.
I don’t think this is related to the Roon dropouts unless when you’re using Roon the Tidal app is also running and the two apps are “fighting for control”
I’m just guessing in this post though.

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I understand and I know people are trying to help… …But my Roon Core Mac Mini is uploading/downloading speeds of just under 100mb/s… To hard-wire via ethernet would mean running it through three floors and several walls… Ugh. Sure, Roon would prefer this, but is this what most people do??

Paging Dr. @ipeverywhere
Was it you that once explained why there’s more to it than just internet speed?
Perhaps you have the link to that?
Or can help here?

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My core lives right next to the router with all the music local to it. I take it you use that machine for other things?

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Can you show your Settings → Audio ? and then the settings for the DAC?

I assume your DAC is direct USB connected and you are running in exclusive mode?

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@ODS, I have a smaller home and run Roon wirelessly, but it took a few days to tune my WiFi network. As others have noted, Roon has some unique requirements around timing and synchronizing that makes it work well across zones and multiple users.

Can you temporarily move your M1 mini so it can be hardwired to your router to eliminate the WiFi as a variable?

Can you also provide any more information on how your Orbi mesh system is connected to your FiOS router? Do you have the Orbis configured in bridge mode where all the routing and IP addressing is coming from the FiOS router, or do you have a separate network configured where the Orbis perform their own network addressing and routing?

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Hi @ODS,

Dropouts are NOT to be expected and wouldn’t be tolerable to me.

In the diagnostic logging, I see a couple of hundred connectivity-related errors. From what I have read here, the core’s connection is likely the problem. Even if you’re hard-wired to a node, you’re still on wireless. A true hard-wire to your router is the best path here. If wiring the core isn’t an option, your best bets are to ensure you’re using the 5ghz network, and change the channels to avoid interference. This article has a lot of plugging for their SW but it also has all of the information you need regarding channels and potential interference. Locating Good Channels and Bad Neighbors with a Wi-Fi Scanner

In my case, I had to have network drops done in my office where my computers/Nucleus reside and my kid’s game room where their computers reside. I am using an ASUS router as my main router, an unmanaged switch is connected directly to my ASUS. Those cables going from the switch to the other rooms are connected to ASUS AIMesh nodes via hard-wiring. That way, both rooms have access to LAN cabling if needed but if they’re using wireless, they’re getting the same connectivity as my main router. It was almost $500 to have someone wire my home but it’s worth it. Now I’ll have amazing internet for the life of the cables.

Here’s our article on Roon’s best networking practices to learn even more:

Regards,
Wes

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Thank you all for your interest in helping me. …I will borrow a 100ft. ethernet cable and will hook my Mac Mini Core directly to my router. …And will report back. I’ll also include info on the current setting in Roon, Tidal, etc…

Much appreciated!!

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I have solid concrete floors so had to go under skirting, around door frames and under carpets - you can get flat Cat6/7 which means it’s fairly easy to hide

I had to go up from the fibre box, to the router (which is also the WiFi hub that I wanted on 1st floor ie. Middle of three), back down again to my Nucleus, then across the ground floor to the rig

I’d guess 40m of Cat7 in all. It was a bit of a faff, but not too difficult nor expensive

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I had Cat 6 run around the back of my house.

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I did exactly the same Jim.
Cat 6 through the window from my upstairs office where the router/ modem is running around the vinyl siding, down through the window frame of my music room downstairs. To an unmanaged switch to feed everything audio related.
100ft cable, more of a pain than cost.
But…the end result of zero dropouts or connection issues even streaming hires is definitely worth it.
Can’t recommend true hard wired Ethernet for Roon highly enough.

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