I recently got this same switch, it replaced my Netgear GS105v5 which was powered with iFi iPower psu. My original intention was just to borrow it from my dealer and make a comparison, I was very skeptical to hear any difference.
What got me interested in first place was when I tried to simplify my setup and removed the Netgear switch completely. Originally I used switch so I could connect the Linn ADSM and my LG OLED tv with ethernet instead of using wifi on TV. Well after problems with 4k streaming through Plex and actually getting faster connection from TV with wifi than ethernet (most TV’s only have 100mbps ethernet connections instead of full 1gbps), I continued with wifi on TV and was left with only Linn ADSM connecting to the switch. I then tried to remove the switch completely and connect the ADSM directly to the wall socket with regular unshielded Cat6a cable. The result was horrible, I only needed to play through few of my test tracks to notice that something was not right. Listening fatigue creeped in immediately, clearly harsher presentation. And this was with Netgear GS105v5. Even the regular switch improved things dramatically, probably filtering much of the noise coming from wall and all the way from router (which is in another room) and isolating Linn ADSM from all this crap.
After it was clear that switch really does something in the mix, I tried the EE 8S, which further improved everything. To my surprise, I heard more coherent presentation with better timing and rhythm. Sound balance was pretty much the same. I switched back and forth with Netgear and EE, at least three times and the difference was always there. I never returned the EE switch and it’s now part of my system.
Btw I did some comparisons with ethernet cables also. EE ships with Chord C-stream cable, their entry level cable which costs ~50 euros per 1m. I also borrowed longer C-stream so I could try if it works between wall and EE. I also had Melco ethernet cable same time. I quickly found out that between wall socket and EE, unshielded Cat6a bulk cable works much better than Chord or Melco. Then again, between EE and Linn ADSM, C-stream worked better than unshielded bulk cable. After this I ordered Blue Jeans Cable Cat6a (with floating shield) cable between wall socket and EE and I’m happy with the cabling now. Clearly it’s best to isolate the wall socket from the rest of the system as well as possible. Unshielded or floating shield cables do this, but I guess C-stream and Melco don’t have floating but connected shield.
Everyone remember, these are MY subjective opinions and impressions after testing the gear in my own setup. No need to get upset if your experience differs from mine.
@patouskii thanks for adding your input to this thread, there are a few threads that I read that I keep telling myself to stop reading, but this has been a good thread.
Every case is different and if it improved things for you then fantastic. I personally use a few cheap Netgear & TP Link 8 port switches and they work great for me, but as you pointed out everyone’s setup is different. I understand that your switch comes with a high quality LPS and that might be making all the difference if there is a lot of noise on the lines. Thankfully I live in a house with good clean power.
As a network guy I am not a fan of super expensive ethernet cables with noise suppression etc as and basic shielded cable should work, but again if you have a malfunctioning network and love your music, throw money at the problem (as long as you have it to begin with).
In your case it sounds like a good investment and who can complain about that.
At this point we all should ask ourselves a very serious question. What is a difference worth if you first have to believe there will be a difference in order to perceive it?
8Switch actually comes with higher quality SMPS. EE/Chord recommends NOT to use LPS with the 8Switch. Works for me.
We also probably have one of the cleanest power grids in world here in Finland so I haven’t bothered with power filters etc. I don’t see any problems with my network either, data moves from point a to b with zero problems.
When it comes to SQ differences between digital equipment, I’ve learnt that it’s never a problem with data or usually even jitter. It’s mostly power and electrical connections between equipment which affect our systems the way they shouldn’t. I noticed the same back in the day with USB-bridges in front of my Naim DAC. I used to own one of the first USB dongles out there (the original M2Tech HiFace) which wasn’t asynchronous, used PC power and didn’t have galvanic isolation. It was still better than straight coaxial connection from PC’s integrated sound card to DAC but so bad compared to USB bridges nowadays with separate power supplies and proper isolation.
Even Amirm in ASR admits and have measured these differences back in 2016:
”Please don’t believe in online folklore that says “digital is digital” and hence it does not matter which digital path you use to output your audio samples to the external DAC (stand-alone or internal to an AVR or Processor). That is the layman understanding of how our audio systems work, not the reality. That reality says that digital audio reproduction requires two pieces of information: audio samples and their timing .”
Sorry for wandering slightly offtopic with the USB stuff.
@patouskii I am not one that believes 100% digital is digital and I own enough Audioquest equipment that would make me a liar if I claimed otherwise.
But I have also never seen a network switch do anything other than pass packets. Admittedly I have seen switches that didn’t have enough backplane bandwidth that dropped plenty of packets under high load, but these were all in a heavy loaded business environment.
I have definitely seen what a big improvement a decent power supply and USB noise suppressor can make and I ended up buying these and decent USB cables for the Pi’s that I have as Roon endpoints.
Today, I received my new 8Switch. It’s replaced my Netgear GS208.
It’s fed by a Devolo HomePlug. My Meridian 210, Meridian 218, and PrimeMini4 ROCK Server are connected to the 8Switch by Meridian Cat 7 SpeakerLink Cables. My Speakers are active Meridian M6’s, plus Meridian DSW.2 active Sub.
A few short hours of listening so far reveals a less bloated, cleaner, more well refined, expansive and tuneful Bass response. After Christmas, I will have a better opportunity for extensive listening in evaluating the 8Switch.
Get rid of the homeplug and you will find it improves way more than any switch. If your worried about noise in the system there is nothing worse than homeplugs for putting RF out to your whole mains systems. I used to use them and they interfered with my phono stage rather a lot.
While I certainly questioned whether a switch can make a difference to a properly implemented Ethernet transceiver in a streamer, many people whose opinions I value swear by audiophile switches. I went into this with an open mind because of those valued opinions. I would have gladly bought the switch if I had experienced any improvement, regardless how slight.
I would not be at all surprised to hear a significant improvement if I tried this using 2 of my Squeezebox Touch streamers. Unlike the Moon streamers I used in the test, they were designed to a very low price point, and have a number of deficiencies. Unfortunately, the EE8 went back to the folks who lent it to me before i thought to try that.
You might be right about the SBTs - but I suspect the upstream Prosafe switch is already doing everything the EE8 claims to do. Just with more science/engineering and less marketing…
Certainly possible, but the way the IP stack works, a properly designed Ethernet link will not transfer phase noise from its recovered clock to the stack’s higher level clocks, which ultimately send the data to the DAC. If the ethernet transceiver in your streamer is doing its job correctly, it should be (close to) immune to effects from a dirty input signal. I think that’s why I noticed no difference. Also, in my Streamer/DAC, the DAC uses its own clock to access data from the incoming data buffer, something that is not possible if your streamer is feeding the DAC by SPDIF.
I do believe that many of the audio companies who have put streamers into their DAC products don’t fully understand how to make sure the clock domains are properly isolated from each other, so these products may benefit significantly from a better switch. I think the following quote is indicative of this. If plugging an ethernet cable into your streamer degrades SQ even when the signal is wireless, your streamer definitely has clock domain isolation issues.
In other words, it sounds more like an actual instrument vs an indistinct, loud, rumbly fart. But many like loud farts that rumble the house since they’ve never heard better.
Unfortunately it has nothing to do with price of the system. I would rather say that it’s easier to pick up the differences with highly resolving and accurate systems, which often don’t come cheap.
In theory every DAC and streamer should probaly be immune to all the noises, ground loops and rf out there. Theories often are perfect and beautiful, real world isn’t.
Coming from the pro studio world. (Where we do a lot of equipment evaluation) we do a/b tests where we quickly Switch back and forth between two (or more) units being evaluated.
For example, we do this with microphones on a singer, we may have as little as one, 3-4 minute ‘run though’ to arrive at the best of 3 or 4 mics. We pick the best sounding one - then move forwards with it (we can’t wear out the singer for hours just for our tests, as they will lose their tone or get worn out)
I get concerned about comparative evaluations which take place over a day or a week spent with just one unit. Ear - brain memory time is said to be short.
So for me, only very quick change-over tests hold water.
Interesting, for me personally, it takes longer time to decide what i actually like best. I’m not particulalrly interested in what the differences are, more whether i like them or not!
But i understand why you do it this way of course. I’m sure one mike fits a particular singer better than another one too.
I agree. It takes me longer with say DACs but the difference is usually very slight. It can take multiple longer sessions to decide which I enjoyed more.
When it comes to different analog equipment the difference can be more obvious. Especially Mics.
A DAC does something. It collects data, accounts for Jitter, converts digital to audio. There are lot’s of parts there that can actually define the resulting sound.
A network switch, by definition, by protocol standards, by everything that it is designed to do based on the protocol for the network, has no impact on audio quality. It can’t. If there would be any difference, netflix would be selling high quality video networking equipment.
Now, a bad powersupply of the switch could have an impact on your overall electrical grid, and that might, just might, effect your music. But if you believe in network switch being audiophile, more power to you. There is just no basis to it at all.
