I’ll show the TIM (Transient Intermodulation Distortion) measurement when I get back home.
It is excellent - as is the multitone and jitter (DAC+Amp obviously) if one reads beyond the 1kHz SINAD measurement
The DAC Pico output looks identical to the DAC+amp Pico output - a pretty good sign
In fact, all of Cyan2’s measured outputs look identical to Cyan2+amp - there is no difference of note
I’m basically listening to Cyan2’s output 
I use the TIM 100 measurement. But you will need a high speed test signal for that, because it reaches to well excess of 500 kHz spectrum. Remember to measure this to headphone style loads, not to pure resistive loads.
Also remember to make a power-cube type of measurement where you have highly reactive loads. Ones that are very capacitive and ones that are very inductive and combinations of these as well. Headphones are not resistive loads, so the measurements should be made at least primarily to inductive loads.
This is from TI’s datasheet:
Possibly your guess of a TI chip being used is incorrect? Because:
Why? It is not the same test conditions.
And at typical DAC output level of 2 V that Topping has about 107 dB SINAD. At that 50 mW about 115 dB SINAD. At 50 mV output level 75 dB SINAD.
So what do you base your guess on?
As I mentioned, all of Cyan2’s measured outputs look identical to Cyan2+Amp - there is no difference of note
In all my measurements - of course there are measurements I have not done or aware of but so far I’m basically listening to Cyan2’s output
Popular chips used on chip-based headphone amps. And I guess the Topping is not a discrete transistor design. They haven’t been making discrete output stages to their DACs either. And it’s rather inexpensive at $2.745 per piece in 1k batches.
I guess my question was what in the measurements suggests this TI chip because as I mentioned DAC measures like DAC+Amp in a suite of measurements.
I don’t know how many people can say this with their amps.
At the moment it is a wild guess - could be correct or could be wildly incorrect
I’m curious to find out myself, but it doesn’t change the DAC-surpassing objective performance
Where did you get these figures? it has been measured
At 50mV it has SINAD above 90dB which is state of the art - I measured it
You need to switch to the low gain output… which is negative gain I believe, the only way to get this kind of performance
The middle one can be compared to the TI’s figure. 32 ohm load, 50 mW condition.
I am also 100% certain that your T+A DAC200 measured output will look quite different to your DAC200+Joutenheim2 amp output
The delta being the amp…
I guess that alone is important to consider about “sound of amp” ?
I don’t know, I’ve never used that combination. I have Spring 2 connected to the Jotunheim 2. This combo is driving Sennheiser HD800 headphones.
I have HA 200 though that is DAC + headphone amp, and my primary tool with the Solitaire P headphones.
I don’t have measurement adapter cable for the 4-pin XLR nor for the 4.4mm Pentaconn headphone output, so I cannot easily check. I can measure from the unbalanced headphone output, but that is not representative because I don’t use it.
Then I also have Spring 3 / Gustard A26 + Ferrum Oor w/ Hypsos PSU to AKG K601 / Neumann NDH 30.
Yeh I got such adapters quite cheap from AliExpress. If they weren’t built correctly, I probably wouldn’t see DAC+Amp output looking like DAC output 
, so I am confident they are properly built
Worthy experiment to do especially if discussing sound of amps…
Certain. In fact my Jadis I50 has no problems and the sound I get is excellent.
In my opinion HQPlayer is the best usable player and I say this after having tried other players for a long time.
What I’ll have to do is treat myself to a DAC like the Cyan2 but I have to save up and maybe Santa Claus will bring me a gift 
Hqplayer being the best music player is not an opinion but a fact!!! Haha
In fact it is the only thing in audio that my wife actually said that for $300 it’s a “no brainer buy”…
Nothing baked into the Focus Fidelity convolution fir filter per se. The filters are generally -6db quieter when activated. The AKM4499ex chip of the A26 has -3db baked in for DSD.
So yeah @jussi_laako gives us the red knob warning and the limiter check.
I had a vision during the eclipse today of a HQplayer DSD direct network dac……
@jussi_laako the planets were aligned too! 
Then Cyan 2 has lower noise…
(and Jotunheim 2 doesn’t have detectable distortion components at 50 mV output level in low gain mode, even from the unbalanced output, to a 150 Ohm load)
Joutenheim2 has 10dB worse SNR at 50mV, around 83dB
The best headamps are over 90dB at 50mV. Only 1 so far I seen managed 100dB
And not a flat frequency response to 100kHz
So this amp may impart its own sound on DAC
Schiit Jotunheim 2 Review (DAC & Headphone Amp) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Good additional reconstruction filter for Cyan 2… Makes it a bit closer to Spring. Even better with something like SMSL D-6 which has poorer analog reconstruction stages.
There are just so many other aspects than just SINAD, that every time I see someone boasting something based on SINAD figures my eyes glace over.
Usually it is result of huge amount of negative feedback. Which is itself known to cause issues. As we already know from the 70’s when we went over all this same SINAD boasting competition. While the amps sounded bad. Due to TIM, especially due inability to stay stable to reactive loads. Because measurements focused on THD and were done only to resistive loads.
We have already seen this in some DAC analog stages, like for example Topping D90SE.
Now you are probably going tell me that you also consider my reference T+A HA 200 junk. As well as the Ferrum Oor (EISA best headphone amplifier 2022-2023)… 
Good synergy with my Spring 2 and Sennheiser HD800.
And by the way I today measured my Jotunheim from the unbalanced outputs. And nothing to complain about performance. Especially nice that no change in distortion signatures regardless of switching between different loads.
