Best native DSD DACs for use with HQPlayer?

No problem, I bow before your deep knowledge.

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I don’t know what I’m doing, I only said Cam knows what he is doing :smile:

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Maybe it’s your style, I don’t know. Raising yourself above other people, it’s super annoying.

Few points, there was nothing incorrect in my original post. -3dB is something Jussi has recommended all over the internet. It’s a good baseline. Using -3dB doesn’t mean you don’t know what you’re doing, like you imply. I know perfectly well what I’m doing and use -6dB in HQP volume control with the VBA DSP filter I use. I could bake it in the filter but I choose not to, since it doesn’t matter which way you do the -dB.

Also how tf could I know what Mr. Cam knows? Should I read his mind? Good to know that he has his filters generated with attenuation baked in.

And throwing around $50k price tags is somehow validating someone’s knowledge? There’s people with million dollar setups who know nothing and people with $500 setups who know very much about this hobby. Simply a stupid comment.

I have no problem admitting that I didn’t know that the volume knob turns red in some other occasions than clipping. You learn something new every day.

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No need for NeuralLink, he wrote that his limited counter stays at 0 :slight_smile:

it was a joke… you think there exists a $50k credit card size Raspberry Pi DAC HAT board?

:man_facepalming:

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To more interesting discussion and on topic:

Reply from Topping when I told them they haven’t properly tested DSD512 and DSD Direct (after I sent them my measurements… for the anti measurement crowd it is not possible to detect these technical performance faults with your ears…):

ā€œOur engineers have received your message and believe it will be improved for future products.ā€

No word on firmware fixes for current products :smile:

Maybe their 1-bit SDM D900 won’t be so broken now, if they check it ? Who knows

If I can do a free home trial I will check. Otherwise, I am happily enjoying Holo Cyan2 and I can sleep well at night that it performs really well with DSD256 especially

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Yet the knob turns red, which is something I didn’t know is possible in other instances than clipping.

It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if there was $50k Pi DAC HATs around in this hobby. There’s freaking cables around probably costing double that.

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Since they put out a new DAC about monthly, I don’t think they have time or bother to maintain ā€œolderā€ existing products…

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Yes E30iii probably isn’t too far away :smile:

everyone here with E30ii can use it as a door stopper

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I agree with your comments. If not incorporating the headroom within the convolution filter implies someone does not know what they are doing, there’s probably hundreds of thousands of people out there not know what they are doing …

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I am using wasapi with virtual Hi-Fi cable to feed music into HQPlayer from Foobar. Just wondering is there other way to do it better?

The issue I have is that I have to change the bitrate manually in the HQPlayer when Foobar feed music with a different bitrate.

For Roon, the bitrate is auto.

Wow… E30II is pretty new.

For E30II, it supports ā€œDSD Directā€
For E30III, it will supports ā€œTrueDSD Directā€. LOL.

It reminds me wireless bluetooth earphone vs true wireless bluetooth earhphone :smile: :rofl:

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@jussi_laako

Today I also received the response from Aoshida which can be summarized as follows:
They advise against upscaling PCM files but don’t say why,
The maximum volume will be reduced after HQplayer conversion, thus losing the signal-to-noise ratio and dynamic range.
They recommend using JRiver because it is the one tested by Topping and which gives the best results in terms of signal-to-noise ratio and dynamic range
DSD frequencies (DSD128 and DSD256 can achieve a balance between distortion and in-band noise).
While waiting to buy the Cyan 2 I set the E30II to Fixed Volume, DSD 256, F1 and HQPlayer as follow

Thanks everyone for the help

yes but we have a better thread to discuss feeding other sources into HQPlayer , lets discuss there

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E30iii was a joke. I don’t know if such a product is coming

But since there is a ii it is probably safe to assume one day a iii

And the measurements i showed are still excellent really - any joke i make doesn’t change the excellent measurements

No you don’t, because then you need to attenuate less at your amplifier side and thus you have less SNR/DNR loss there.

You also win a lot lower distortion!

Generally yes

But there are now amps that have less noise and less distortion than most DACs

So in practical sense (not theoretical) when you reduce 1dB on the amp your THD+N also reduces by only 1dB, Just like digital volume control

Not the case with a lot of amps unfortunately

My headphone amp measures better than my Cyan2

…measured at full power again? Not at your normal listening volume?

For example ESS chip has roughly equivalent noise itself as 600 ohm resistor. If you have a 20 kOhm potentiometer on the path, it will generate more thermal noise than your DAC output has.

Except that DACs usually have lowest THD at level below 0 dBFS. It is not unusual to have lowest THD+N at -10 dB.

But yes, so you don’t gain anything by trying to maintain high output level from DAC because the net DNR is result of all attenuations on the path. If your DAC output level is lower, you just can keep the amp volume higher up with best case situation ±0 change regardless where you do it.

My amps generally have more noise at my listening levels than my DACs at -3 dB output level.

But still, I don’t hear any hiss. In best possible situation, my listening background noise is about 30 dB SPL. If my DAC would have let’s say just 110 dB SNR. This means that I would need to be listening louder than 140 dB SPL to hear the background noise. My headphones cannot do such, nor my ears.

Listening environments at 20 or less dB SPL become annoying, because you begin to hear your own heartbeats, breathing and your internal organs operating which is not at all nice.

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I always measure both at my normal listening level, and the standard 4V outputs. I never measure full output, doesn’t make practical sense to me

The Topping A70 Pro has one of best 50mV output measured, 95dB SNR
Majority of headphones amps on the planet are quite a bit worse

Mainly a problem for IEMs, less problematic for full sized headphones

Yes you don’t have one of these amps I am talking about that measure better than most DACs :slight_smile:

And you are talking about noise only

But as I mentioned there are amps now with lower distortion than any DAC we have

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/topping-a70-pro-headphone-amplifier-balanced-preamplifier-xlr-measurement-png.285100/

Of course keep reading measurements beyond 1kHZ SINAD but there is virtually no measurable distortion here - this is insane

And look at the 50mV output, my IEM listening level - state of the art is over 90dB SNR at 50mV. It is a very short list doing this

Also because people measure those wrong…

Likely number of DACs would give just as good figures at -10 dBFS output level…

But as side note, seems like AP has pretty bad clock phase noise on analog loopback!

And honestly, I don’t care about such SINAD figures. Likely that amp still sounds horribly bad for other reasons.

If I guess correctly, it is based on TI’s INA1620 chip. Or tuned TI’s TPA6120A2 circuit. These give good SINAD figures, but I never liked sound of those, transient performance is lacking.