ROCK (NUC8i3BEH, 8GB Ram, 240GB M2) - V 1.0 (build 175 stable)
Roon V 1.6 (build 416 stable)
Network Details (Including networking gear model/manufacturer and if on WiFi/Ethernet)
Wired, gigabit, NetGear GS108 switch.
Audio Devices (Specify what device you’re using and its connection type - USB/HDMI/etc.)
Matrix XSabre Pro MQA DAC + Uptone USB Regen , USB connection direct to ROCK.
Description Of Issue
My primary goal is to export my Roon playlists back into Tidal for mobile use. I’ve used Soundiiz before when migrating from Spotify to Tidal so plan to use it’s native Roon import for the process. My issue starts though when trying to export to excel from within Roon, only a subset of tracks from each playlist are included. All local, but only some Tidal. E.g. one 160+ Tidal only PL export only includes 8 tracks. After reading through similar topics here I confirmed the missing tracks were not added-to-library but I’ve tried multiple ways to add them and none stick - Select All + Add to Library (the progress meter shows, and status window with correct count on larger add jobs) , individually adding tracks etc. In each case on the surface they appear to be adding when I first click to do so as the Focus and Favourite options becomeactive. But if I move off that screen and return they are back to neutral, and the Playlist version remains un-added (and unexportable). I finally tested with one track where clicking on the Album link from the playlist, adding the track (or full album) was showing it being added correctly but then being lost again when I moved off. I repeated the test but this time before leaving the album screen went ahead and added the track again to the playlist it was already in. That one stuck. Clicking the album link from the newly added duplicate takes me to a version that shows it as added, clicking on the link from the pre-existing un-added version brings me to the orphaned version showing as un-added. It’s like once added to a playlist the tracks and parent albums have an entry of their own that can be played and works from a PL but cannot be added formally to the library for further operation, but adding an album or track first and then adding it to a PL works just fine with a separate and unique reference in the library (I’m presuming).
I had this problem from my initial roon load on my PC and now on the new ROCK.
I did a little more testing and one simple thing showing that the 2 track/album references (Pre and post-add) are unique, rather than the previously un-added reference being ‘upgraded’ in place to a full Library object is that they are not even recognised as duplicates.
If i understand your problems correctly, then there are a couple of points here. Firstly, as stated in this KB article you can’t export Tidal content - only local files will be exported. Secondly, and this may bear on your problems relating to adding to a playlist, only local playlists can be edited as stated in this KB article.
Roon have commented on the difficulty of dealing with non-Tidal playlists in this thread
Thanks for the response Bryan, much appreciated, but my case is a little different:
I’m not trying to export files (which yep will exclude streaming content) but export the playlist data only to Excel, which should include references only to all content, streaming included.
These Playlists are Roon local, for my first few initially I imported from Spotify to Tidal, then Tidal to a Local Roon copy. Over time I’ve added to the Roon version, and I’ve tested that the issue exists on new songs added directly from Roon to those playlists. I also have the issue on new Roon only playlists with Tidal content.
See to me if we don’t have an option to automatically add objects (songs/albums etc.) to the full library on Playlist-add then Roon should at least upgrade-in-place any objects that are later converted (preserving or at least mirroring existing references in playlists/tagging etc.). I presume that is the normal and intended operation but in my case it seems not to occur. The cached/non-added versions can be included in a playlist but never directly added to the library from that point as-is, in effect a new reference needs to be made by adding the object to the library and then adding it to the PL. If I need to do that manually it’s a LOT of work to go back and fix O_o .
While the local .m3u style export has to (and will only) include local files you can export just the list details with the Export-to-Excel function, this should include all objects in the playlist (as no audio is being exported).
And any Tidal files I’ve added to the library first and then added to a playlist will export succesfully this way.
Rereading your posts, I think i (finally, sorry) understand. You would like Roon to automatically add non-library tracks in a playlist to the exported .xls file. Seems a good idea. Perhaps set up a feature request.
At the heart of it if I add a track to the Library first and then add it to a PL all is good - I can favourite the track, from the album view it shows it’s PL membership and most importantly right now if I export the PL to Excel that track is included.
If I add a track to a PL without first adding it to the Roon library I can’t do any of those things. There is a process for adding-to-library after adding-to-pl (Select-all + Add to Library) but it doesn’t work for me, neither does manually adding a song to the library when I navigate to it from the PL.
Add track to Library.
Add track to Playlist
Add track to Playlist
Add track from Playlist to library (manual or bulk)
Example: Manual fix.
From playlist navigate to the track.
Add it to the Library (again…)
Without leaving this screen/session add the track back to the playlist.
This ‘version’ of the track works but does not replace the original PL version, in fact it is not even recognised by Roon as a duplicate.
Roon will distinguish tracks that it considers a true, unadulterated, Tidal track, from a Tidal track in your library - even if they appear identical. This is because Roon considers the case where you may have edited the metadata for it. You can see which version is which in your playlist because the 'heart symbol will be greyed out on the non-library version.
I can confirm what @BrianW mentions above. Even if the two tracks are identical, they will be separated into a library version and the original version. I understand it’s a bit confusing at first (and we are considering improvements in this area), but it is intended as a way to preserve metadata edits between versions. Hope this helps!
Thanks @noris , understood but does that mean that by design a Tidal track added to a playlist before being added to the library cannot be directly added in-place to the library and preserve it’s existing associations. I.e. if added to a playlist before being added to the library it is essentially a less manageable listing from then on. If you want favourite and Excel-export options etc. then you need to add the track to the list again after adding it to the library, and remove the original? That’s extremely inefficient if so (and the core of my issue). Promotion to an increased data state in the database makes more sense. Even if that means essentially creating a new entry as you are but copying the existing associations as the track is added.
Otherwise as I suggested earlier why not have an option to auto add to library as files are added to play-lists (tbh even before running into this issue I was surprised that wasn’t a default state).
Also it seems strange that there is an option to add to library from within playlists that doesn’t appear to work. Again in that the currently selected entries are not updated to that state within it.
Yes, these two “versions” would essentially be different depending on which one you initially added to your playlist. Our Versions Knowledge Base Article touches upon why we do things this way, but I do agree that there is room for improvement here.
Also a good idea, but it does not currently work this way. I would recommend posting your suggestion in the 'feature request" section of the site as our product team and developers keep a close eye on that category, so that’s definitely the best place to propose a change like this and get feedback from the Community.
Thanks @noris while I’m not nuts about the current state I am thankful for the quick response and at least knowing for sure what I have to do next. I’ll post this over on the feature request section as suggested.
Also thanks again @BrianW for sticking through my ranting
I’m not sure auto add is a good idea, actually. There is a hard track limit in Tidal. As far as I know, there is not a limit on playlists with non-library material. But, if you auto add all those to the library then you might have people bumping into that hard limit. (10k). And to remove them, users would have to through the library delete process instead of just removing them from a playlist.
Perhaps, but @Derek_Coleman’s original plea was to export a complete playlist, via excel, which contained a mixture of library and non-library tracks. At the moment Roon doesn’t include the non-library tracks in that export, and it seems a reasonable request to include that.