Cannot migrate core to a new computer

Support
1

Roon Core Machine

Windows 10 Pro

Networking Gear & Setup Details

I use WiFi using a router provided by my ISP, Spectrum, in the U.s.

Connected Audio Devices

I don’t understand this question. My core was on my laptop (Lenovo Thinkpad).

Number of Tracks in Library

I don’t have a music library.

Description of Issue

My core was on a Lenovo Thinkpad that just died. I had been backing up my database every week. I am trying to set up a new core on a new Thinkpad. When I log in I have zero entries in the core. So, I logged out and followed the instructions for restoring a core: https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/migration#Preparation

That is, instead of logging in, I clicked on “Restore from Backup” at the bottom of the screen. It proceeds for about 10 seconds and then says that the restore failed.

I have done this several time with the same result.

3

Hi @Chris_Newland & welcome to the community.

Connected devices = your hifi & control devices (streamers, iphones/mobile phones, tablets etc)

Your Core should be hardwired to your router (via an ethernet cable).

If you don’t have a library there won’t be any entries, if you are using a streaming service or have locally ripped music files (or downloads) then you have a music library.

Where were your backups stored? If they were on your core then they may have been corrupted when the machine failed (or the backup process failed).

4

I have my core backed up on a Box Drive (network drive) where it was backed up every week. My core contained all my preferred albums arranged in tags. Most of my music listening is via streaming so I don’t have a collection of purchased or downloaded albums.

The computer containing the core is connected to my HiFi bi WiFi, and my router is connected via an ethernet cable.

My router is connected to a Bluesound node, then to a Qutest D/A and on to a pre-amp, etc.

My question is how do I get my backed up preferences on to my new core, which is located on a laptop. The core can find the backups just fine, but it is having difficulty reading them.

5

This sounds like some of the backups (possibly all) are corrupted. You could try copying the entire backup folder to your core and try a restore from there. You’ll have to try restoring from the most recent backup working back through until you find one that will restore successfully.

6

Copied all the files from the Box network drive to my computer–the same one that will become my new core. I tried restoring all ten backup folders and get the same error message: “Restore failed. Please check your backup folder and try again.”

I don’t know what it means to “check your backup folder.” When I selected a backup folder I get a list of ten items to choose from, each named as a date an times. Each one fails. (I tried inserting a screen shot but it didn’t work).

When I look deeper in the folder that I used for the backups I see a much of cryptically named files, so I don’t know how to check that folder.

The backup folder is 8.54 GB and has 7,466 files in 8,064 folders. (why is this folder so big?)

I neither received nor saw any indication that the backup was failing.

This is very frustrating. I took precautions to perform a weekly backup on a network drive that, itself, was being backed up but it seems. I have never, ever had a Box file become corrupted. From here, it looks like there is some flaw in either the backup or the restore software.

It looks like I still have access to the albums through Qobuz so maybe I can reorganize them into tags. But 1) I’d like to avoid that tedious task and 2) I’d like to figure out how to make a workable backup if I continue with Roon.

Thank you for any further help you can provide.

7

Hi Chris, see below…

I don’t know what it means to “check your backup folder.” When I selected a backup folder I get a list of ten items to choose from, each named as a date an times. Each one fails. (I tried inserting a screen shot but it didn’t work).

Unfortunately from this you can be pretty sure your backups are corrupted and of no use!

When I look deeper in the folder that I used for the backups I see a much of cryptically named files, so I don’t know how to check that folder.

You can’t view backups from explorer or a file manager you need to use backup viewer in Roon

The backup folder is 8.54 GB and has 7,466 files in 8,064 folders. (why is this folder so big?)

This is a tiny fraction of size of your library and nothing to worry about (Mine is 31GB)

I neither received nor saw any indication that the backup was failing.

The backup, if it fails, will indicate failure (in red) in the backup window. The backups probably didn’t fail but more likely got corrupted while transferring across the network. It’s recommended to backup to a local attached usb drive to avoid potential problems.

This is very frustrating. I took precautions to perform a weekly backup on a network drive that, itself, was being backed up but it seems. I have never, ever had a Box file become corrupted. From here, it looks like there is some flaw in either the backup or the restore software.

Roon backup system is pretty reliable and those who have experienced occasional backup problems ultimately find it’s due a local network or hardware problems.

When you’re ready to start again, run a backup and try restoring it before you do any editing.

8

OK. So, evidently my backups are corrupted because they were done over WiFi. I have two questions now, one practical, one out of curiosity.

  1. It is good practice to back up on a different device, and idealy in a different physical location. That’s why I used Box (which is much like Dropbox). In maybe ten years or more I have never had a file get corrupted on Dropbox or Box (there, only five years) despite using them exclusive for file storage. Probably tens if not hundreds of thousands of files. I live on this kind of storage–never store anything on a computer (except Roon!).

Where do I even look to figure out why every file backed up over WiFi got corrupted. This has to be a Roon issue, or a Roon-WiFi issue, since it doesn’t happen anywhere else. Where do I begin to debug, or is this hopeless?

  1. When I '+" an album, or tag it, what exactly is stored? I assumed it was pointers to the streamed album but when I looked at the size of the file I wondered if it might be the lbum itself. That action doesn’t actually store the album on the devise, does it?
9

No, WiFi has nothing to do with your corruption problems. In the past, Roon has had issues with backing up corrupted databases. That is, the database was probably corrupted before the backup rather than during the backup.

You can’t, but @support probably can (and should) help you with this.

10

Life’s too short, I wouldn’t recommend waiting, move on and try new backups & we will try to help, @support will, try to help at some stage…

11

Roon needs to face facts and realize they still have a problem with backing up corrupted databases. Until that’s re-addressed, any/all Roon backup schemes are a joke.

Here’s another recent example.

12

I’m sure you, and others, can provide examples of failures but generally for the vast majority backups work. There are too many variables out there in local network land which ultimately result in failed backups

13

Don’t know why you are defending code that needs to be fixed, but whatever. Maybe if it happens to you you’ll feel different.

If the code is smart enough to recognize a bad backup, it should be able to stop a bad backup before it overlays a good backup.

14

I’m not defending anything, I am pointing out the obvious as there are so many variables that can cause failures of backups or corruption of them.
For the record it has happened to me which why I tried to help the Op.

15

Chris, I have tried to help as I have previously had similar experiences. I hoped to help you to get things working again, I’m sorry I wasn’t able to help and I really don’t have all of the answers.

I hope you manage to sort things out.

17

Hey @Chris_Newland,

Ben with the support team here, thanks for writing in, and I’m sorry for the delay in reaching you. Welcome to the community as well!

@PixelPopper has done a good job in troubleshooting thus far - thank you for your help. :pray:

It would be good to review your troublesome backups. If you could please zip them up and send them over to our Database Corruption Issues portal, we’ll be able to take a closer look. I’m sorry you’re experiencing issues restoring what should be a properly saved backup, it’s an extremely frustrating issue that seemingly comes out of nowhere.

@xxx I will certainly push your request over to our development team to get a review in the queue!

18

Many thanks for this reply. I will zip the backups, or maybe the last couple but may be a couple of days before I can get to it.

This experience is leading me to rethink how I do the backups. It looks like I’ll need to back up directly to a hard drive, freestanding or in a computer. But then I’d like to back that hard drive up somewhere like Dropbox or Box. That’s the link I’m wondering about now.

Please correct me if I’m wrong about this requiring a two-stage process: backup to disk and then disk to cloud storage. I would very much like to do this in one step: direct backup to Box or Dropbox if possible.

My other question was out of curiosity. I was suprised at how much disk space the backups required. I’d assumed the backups comprised pointers to streaming locations but it looks like there is much more than that.

When I add an album to my library, or tag it, it doesn’t download the album, does it? If not, what is in this file??

19

Agreed that PixelPopper has been helpful with this by explaining what’s going one and giving me a place to start debugging.

20

Roon is very much a database server. When you add an album, it creates that album object and all related objects in your local database. So, for every person credited on an album, those are also added as local objects. So, one album can generate hundreds of related objects stored in the database.

The main issue is not the size but that a Roon backup is NOT one file, but, thousands and thousands of small files. Which if you are backing up to a cloud service, means you are adding the overhead of verification of the transfer of (hold on checking my own recent backup)… about 5800 files in my last Roon Backup. That is why I always suggest, back up to a location of a PC, zip the backup to one compressed file and then store the zip in the cloud.

21

I condensed the backup folder (not by much) and submitted it through the Roon Database Collector under my name. I’d appreciate any comments that you all may have.

All in all, I’m pretty sure I’m converging on the issue. As has been noted here and I’ve encountered when exploring this further, backing the Roon database directly over WiFi may not be possible. I’m still a bit puzzled as to why the problems occur only with Roon–I’ve never had any difficulties with either Dropbox or Box previously, even when doing detailed data processing with very large files and databases. It may just need to be something to accept.

22

Either a Backup is good or it isn’t. If it isn’t then an error message should be displayed.

The point is not that there was a Backup problem, but that there was no recognition or notification of a Backup problem.

WiFi has little to do with this.