Date of release of the albums

Support
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Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

Roon Nucleus

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500 mbit network; Technicolor router with switch Silent Angel Bonn 8

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Primare SPA23 / Primare Pre30 / Primare A33.2 / Pro-ject Steamer and Pre-box

Description Of Issue

SUGGESTION:

Please correct the dates of release of the albums. The dates now showing relate, perhaps, to the dates added to your collections, not the real date of album edition. For example, through Tidal, Amália Rodrigues’s “Cantigas d’Amigos” shows 6 Feb 2012. Spotify shows 3 Aug 1971 which is the right date.
Please do the same.
Another suggestion: please ask the music editors/labels to provide booklets usually included with CD’s, as downloadable PDF’s, for example. This would make justice to your advertisig of real experience of holding album covers and booklets like in the old days.

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The vinyl was released in 1971 the cd was released in 2011. As dates are normally done by the release type 2012 is closer, probably by territory.

As for booklets that’s a horse long since bolted. Most labels don’t even bother with metadata never mind the booklet.

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Which is why roon provides both Originally Released and Released date fields.

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Spotify registers the first appearance of the album, be it in vinyl. That’s something Tidal and Roon should also do!
Referring to booklets, why no convince the editors/labels (though payment, of course - that’s an argument they understand!) to release them and make them available to streaming clients?
Tidal, Spotify, Qobus, etc. could persuade/negotiate with them. Another plus point for the company that could offer that extra!

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Qobuz already do supply PDFs in their streaming service for many albums (usually the newer releases), and these are also available in Roon’s integration of Qobuz.

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Hi @Fernando_Machado,

It looks like the 2012 release date is coming from TIDAL. I’ve passed a ticket about this along to the team so we can look more closely into this. We appreciate the feedback!

If you ever have any other metadata-related reports, please open a ticket with us in the #support:metadata-issues category using this post as a guide and we’ll be happy to take a look.

Thanks!

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Vinyl in 1971? Not in the 40’s? CD in 2011? Why not 1982?

Anyway, what matters in the initial release/appearance of the work, that sould be included, the way other streaming services do.

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Not always to me. I prefer to match what I have to the actual release/label/format where possible. And as @Stan_Jones said, you can use the original release date field where appropriate. But, we are all different.

Anyway, this is moot here, as Roon does not provide the 1971 version If one tries manual identification.

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Isn’t what matters actually the recording date? Art Blakey’s Just Coolin’ was recorded in 1959, but only released in 2020 - and 2020 is the date that Spotify misleadingly gives it. And anyway you are incorrect that Spotify gives the original release date. Blakey’s Indestructible has the Spotify date 2007, even though it was first released in 1964, perhaps because the cd release has an additional track - what would you do in cases like this? 1964 or 2007? (The additional track was recorded at the same session of some of the tracks on the original release, so it is appropriate to the original time frame.)

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Just to throw another wrinkle into this thread, the best date sorting is perhaps by either RECORDING start date or end date.

I was just looking at my albums in original release date order, and preparing to put together a chronological mix.

One of the most recent albums was a live album by James Brown recorded in the late 60’s. It had never been released before, so both original release date and plain 'ol release date were recent. But, obviously it’s vintage is circa 1968. That’s really where this release should be sorted. Neil Young just released some earlier recorded material, etc.

The problem is that the Recording Start Date / End Date fields are not so consistently populated.

A perfect date solution would include showing the original release or recording date for each track, even where those tracks are on a greatest hits collection released much later in time.

I know I’m dreaming here.

Best solution for me, and this seems very doable to me, would be a new “Date used for sorting” field that I could input to, but which would auto-default/adjust to what data is available for the track or album.

The auto logic would best consider the following: 1) Original release date; 2) Recording start/end date; 3) Original Copyright date. You could have a global setting where the user can substitute “Release Date” for “Original Release Date” in my #1. Even better, the users could pick the priorities of the auto logic so as not to have to manually override the “Date Sort Order (auto)” field with a user “Date Sort Order” field entry.

Probably using #1 as the default, but switching to #2 where it’s a recent release of much older material, and settling on #3 where 1 and 2 data just isn’t available. But, in any case, the user could then manually input a date they would prefer to use as the date sort order. It reminds me of the sort of “if this, than that” logic that drives things like “Album Artist (Auto)” with a user override field “Album Artist”.

This whole “chronology” thing is a long time musical passion of mine. What was it like to live in the late 60s…when Sgt. Pepper came out? What albums were release the week before? The week after? Have thought for a long time how one would program a default sort order, based on what data is available.

Happy listening everyone,

Eric

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Brian, I’m interested in how you organize.

So, a compilation of songs from many different years is easy for you–you use the release date of the compilation. Correct?

So, what would you do for, say, an XTC blu ray rip, where one now has everything from a “needle drop” of the original, to a Steve Wilson remastered surround sound version from the original master tracks, an artistic piece that did not exist until recently, even putting aside its release date? In your approach, ALL versions of the album would get the same release date–the date the blu-ray was released containing all that stuff? If that is correct, what kind of other meta data coding (if any) do you use to distinguish the different vintage of each piece of artistic work?

Just curious. Plus, I’m going to go through a “data grooming” exercise in the coming months, so starting to think through how I’ll continue to refine the grey areas. It helps me to understand how others do this.

Thank you.

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The cases I had in mind when I wrote my post was something like the Beatles albums with their various masterings and formats . Here I use release date as the date the item was released - so my CD copy of the album 1 has a different date from my DVD copy, and neither of them reflect the track dates.

I sometimes play with the version field if I want to show overtly that is the 50th anniversary release for example. Date recorded spans 1962 to 1970.

You can, but I must admit I haven’t often, use the track level recording date fields, though confusingly these appear as performed.

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I was pointing out (in Spotify) to the release for the album I mentioned. I think YouTube Music also shows different dates from Tidal’s/Roon’s. (Not that I am particularly interested in low resolution - just checked…)

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I also agree. All data is welcome.

And since we’re paying one - not so cheap - annuity to Roon, they could take care of that and also provide much more data than the streaming company does (reviews and booklets included - if they have to, go ahead and negotiate!), don’t you think?

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Sorry, about dates, now I understand you meant the release dates for this particular work/album…

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Maybe the forums here can have a sticky thread on something like: “Features/Content Requests for the Industry.” We have Roon feature requests threads, and I get that. But maybe a place where the community can post ideas for Roon management to feed back somehow to the industry players. Things we all want, but Roon can’t do it without cooperation.

iTunes amazingly dropped nearly all composer and musician credits from its initial content in the iTunes store. I couldn’t believe the industry permitted that. Tidal is the first streaming service I recall that prioritized that and brought it back to the forefront for the masses. Obviously, Sooloo and Roon (and allmusic.com and its data providers) were ahead of their time.

A concerted effort to demand pdf liner notes to accompany the content might bring that along a similar wave as restoring credits.

For example, there must be some post asking that Roon populate with Billboard chart information that I’ve seen in allmusic and that we could “focus” on. If that’s a data provider issue and not a “Roon just needs to prioritize the workload” issue, it might be nice to park it in that industry wishlist space and know we all need to lend a voice.

Thanks for listening.

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Thanks, Brian. Since you bring up the Beatles, my intent has been to over time figure out a truly complete tagging of just the Beatles’ various albums. How does one capture all the rich little details–not of every darn album in a collection, but using the Beatles as a case study subset?

For example, I bought the Beatles Mono Box set awhile back, and began ripping it, hoping to do it with all the little details and to distinguish from the stand-alone stereo CDs I ripped. It’s really hard to do that, I realized. Some songs have asterisks noting they were songs in the Help soundtrack. Some LP sides aren’t simply Side A and Side B–the sides have names. And then there’s the aspect that drove this OP thread–the Mono Box set has a release date, but obviously it’s a box set of original LPs (don’t even get started on the Past Masters dilemma), so where does one put the name of the Box versus the name of the original work?

From here, one gets to “It depends” how you approach things, it’s a personal preference. Arrrr! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: OK, but what’s one way to do it, even if after seeing one way to metadata the heck out of it completely, I make my personal changes? :thinking: I have scoured the internet :face_with_raised_eyebrow:, and nowhere do I see anyone share a particular detailed meta data coding of even one sample album, let alone one that is challenging to tag. Plenty describe their “approach” to coding, laying out whatever aspects of their approach seems interesting to share. Plenty take one aspect of a challenge and how they resolved it (e.g., The Band’s Last Waltz is a common example of the difference between Artist and Album Artist). But, nowhere do I see how someone exactly tried to capture all the details of, say, The Beatles “Help.”

Sorry for all the tangents. Writing this while listening to the Beatles!

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I have a massive Beatles collection with multiple versions of every album - both US and UK versions and various vinyl rips. Over 100 albums of a catalog that’s less than 15 original albums.

I’ve just done a lot of tagging with personally developed tags for how I want the albums organized. How to organize it is a personal decision - preference.

One of my friends thinks my system is funny. I don’t care - it works for me, it doesn’t have to work for anyone else. I don’t think you will ever find a useful standardized way to tag the catalog as people will disagree about every aspect of any system that’s proposed.

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Danny, I bet I would not think your approach is “funny.” Even if I would go a different way, I’d love to understand some of it if you feel like sharing sometime.

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Completely agree that sorting by recorded date (probably start IMO) is really needed. Ran into the same issue with the Dead’s RFK '89 box set. The box contains two shows recorded in July '89 but released Oct 10th, 2017 so it’s showing up right between “30 Days of Dead [2017]” and “30 Days of Dead [2018]”. Driving me crazy. :slight_smile:

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