DSD playback gives loud click between tracks

No sticky with change log for release 15?

We’re looking into an issue with Build 15… Expect to see Build 16 coming to a Roon install near you soon :grin:

I have played DSD64 and DSD128 files and all is well here on my end. Also playing some DSD to PCM on my Remote Roon. So far so good.

I noticed on the Remote machine that was doing DSD to PCM. When looking at the signal path, it has the source as DSD64, then RoonSpeakers. Wondering why you do not show the DSD-PCM and then the rate it is playing at?

Great work Roon Team!!!

Thanks @dshore!! – what DAC are you using?

@mike

Wadia Di122

In the interests of additional data…I’m only getting very faint pops when tracks naturally begin (ie, not when skipping tracks manually). Tested with both DSD bitstreaming and with Roon converting to PCM first - same faint pops.

For me, the faint pops take place 1 second into the new track. There’s silence for 1 second, then faint pop, then music plays. Interestingly, I notice that when skipping tracks manually, the track doesn’t play that initial 1 second silence…it hops straight through it to 00:02 and the music starts playing almost instantly (without the pop).

Note, the pops I’m hearing are a total non-issue as they’re so faint, but I suspect my DAC (DiDiT DAC212) is probably smoothing things out as it’s good like that.

[quote=“mike, post:10, topic:1620, full:true”]
Thanks @dshore!! – what DAC are you using?[/quote]

@mike will there be an interim release for the DSD noise issue or will it wait until the next official release?

Hey @dshore – we’re still investigating this, but I’d actually like to get some additional info from you. I’m going to send you a PM now, ok?

Thanks!

I’m getting clicks/pops between DSD tracks too

Core - NUC running Win 8.1 Pro
Remote - Macbook Air connected to DAC - IFI Micro DSD

Running build 16 on both

Forgot to add - using DoP - exlcusive and integer mode

We think we have a fix for this issue, and it’s being tested right now. Hopefully it’s stable and will be released this coming week.

This should be fixed in build 21. Please test and let us know how it goes.

[quote=“brian, post:17, topic:1620, full:true”]
This should be fixed in build 21. Please test and let us know how it goes.[/quote]
@brian I have installed Release 21 on both Core and Remote.

Remote: Having issues with the MAX DSD Rate remaining after a reboot. After reboot all DSD is then down-sampled to 176.2k. This occurs using Wasapi (Wadia) or ASIO (JPlay) driver. Had the white screen also after reboot (only on Remote so far, not Core). I just kill Roon in Task Mgr, and restart Roon and Roon then starts correctly. But over and over, the Max Rate always changed to “-” in the display from what ever setting I had before (64, 128).

Remote: When trying to change the MAX DSD rate, Roon would display “Enabling…” and just sit there, usually causing Roon to be unresponsive. Could not close with “X”, had to use Task Mgr to kill. Restart Roon, it loads up, but no Max Setting again.

Remote: I never saw a choice for Direct when using ASIO driver, but I did see the Direct choice on the Core when hooked up to DAC.

Core: Moved the Core so DAC was connected. Did not have the issue of losing MAX DSD Sample Rate with this setup/configuration. Tried both Wasapi and ASIO and the MAX setting remained after reboot. Also never experienced the “Enabling…” then having to kill Roon on the Core (yet) when hooked up to DAC.

Clicks and Pops:

Remote: Did not get a chance to see what Remote was doing with clicks due to the MAX DAD rate issue.

Core: With Core hooked up to DAC I only heard a POP at the end of the last track, but that was on a “ripped” SACD and not a downloaded album. On downloaded albums, the click/pop is not there…so far. But if I change my cross-fade to 5 sec, then (so far) all DSD albums, ripped or purchased, play fine.

Core: The VERY FIRST DSD song played after reboot starts with a POP, then the song plays. This occurs with both ripped and downloaded DSD files. If the first song played is FLAC the same thing occurs, a POP, then the music starts. This is using ASIO driver. I have not tried with Wasapi yet to see if same thing occurs.

I have also tried both DoP DSD and Native, but both exhibit the same issues.

NOTE: The ripper program some are using (sacd_extract) is known for small clicks at beginning and/or end of a song. I have heard the clicks in JR, but not as loud as I hear them in Roon.

Remote: Having issues with the MAX DSD Rate remaining after a reboot. After reboot all DSD is then down-sampled to 176.2k. This occurs using Wasapi (Wadia) or ASIO (JPlay) driver. Had the white screen also after reboot (only on Remote so far, not Core). I just kill Roon in Task Mgr, and restart Roon and Roon then starts correctly. But over and over, the Max Rate always changed to “-” in the display from what ever setting I had before (64, 128).
Remote: When trying to change the MAX DSD rate, Roon would display “Enabling…” and just sit there, usually causing Roon to be unresponsive. Could not close with “X”, had to use Task Mgr to kill. Restart Roon, it loads up, but no Max Setting again.

This sounds like all the same issue. Something is going wrong when we try to re-enable the output after changing the settings, and it’s freezing up before it gets to the point where the settings are saved.

I’m concerned that there may be some competition over the various drivers in your setup. Some drivers misbehave or fail to open if you try to access them exclusively in WASAPI and ASIO at the same time. Adding JPLAY to the mix might complicate things, too.

We obviously need to get this fixed. I have JPLAY and a bunch of hardware here. I will fool around and try to reproduce this, but if you have any idea how I might be able to get into the situation you’re in, step-by-step, please let me know.

Remote: I never saw a choice for Direct when using ASIO driver, but I did see the Direct choice on the Core when hooked up to DAC.

We caught this just slightly too late for it to make it into this week’s release. It’ll be fixed in the next one–it’s a missing option in the settings UI, not a deeper issue.

Clicks and Pops:

The VERY FIRST DSD song played after reboot starts with a POP, then the song plays. This occurs with both ripped and downloaded DSD files. If the first song played is FLAC the same thing occurs, a POP, then the music starts. This is using ASIO driver. I have not tried with Wasapi yet to see if same thing occurs.

Try using the “Resync Delay” setting at 500ms or 1000ms and see if this improves or not. Whatever you find will point us in a direction (My guess is that it will help with PCM but not with DSD). I am not getting this pop with the DACs I have here, but pops on rate/config change aren’t too uncommon on a device-by-device basis. It may be that JRiver pre-rolls more silence than we do in this situation and that helps hide the issue.

But over and over, the Max Rate always changed to “-” in the display from what ever setting I had before (64, 128).

This one was straightforward to reproduce. It will be fixed in the next build.

Remote: When trying to change the MAX DSD rate, Roon would display “Enabling…” and just sit there, usually causing Roon to be unresponsive. Could not close with “X”, had to use Task Mgr to kill. Restart Roon, it loads up, but no Max Setting again.

This one is still elusive.

@brian I have played around with ripped/extracted DSF files and downloaded DSF files.

The downloaded DSF no longer have issues with pop, clicks, between, or at the end of tracks.

Ripped DSF files are hit and miss. Some have loud POP, some have none. I am going to try out some other extractors to see if they fix the issue.

POP playing first file after system start: Once I changed delay to 500ms, this went away for DSF or FLAC - thanks for the info.

Core weirdness: After testing with connection to DAC, I removed the Core, but I did not DISABLE the ASIO driver. When I tried to startup Core (no DAC attached) the screen with the Roon Symbol pulsating away was shown but never clearing and displaying the main screen. Rebooted, shutdown optimizers, etc. etc but no go - same issue - Roon symbol just pulsating. Hooked up Core with no internet, and then Roon finally loaded up to main screen. I disabled the driver, hooked Roon back up to network, started Roon, and all was okay.

Ok, wacky. @mike can you help @dshore send us some logs? I’d love to see what happened during this last run or two with the core.

So far with the Core attached to endpoint (DAC) it is working well with DSD and ASIO. No white screens, no lockups, no lost settings (you said this is fixed).

Found albums which were originally DFF, then converted to DSF (at some point in time) are the worse. I am using a new converter (I have all my music archived) and the conversion has no noise at end of song.

Will test again once Remote issues resolved - hopefully next release.

I have a Teac UD-501 with Windows 8.1 core and Teac asio driver. DSD playback is fine with DoP method on all materials, so far. I do however, get pops when playing DSD native mode and switching to a PCM track or vice versa. Native between all DSD tracks is fine. I briefly played with delays of 500ms and 1000ms but this seemed to have no effect.

POP playing first file after system start: Once I changed delay to 500ms, this went away for DSF or FLAC - thanks for the info.

I think we are still slightly mishandling silence during resync delays when transitioning from PCM->DSD. I think many DACs are civilized enough to handle this gracefully (yours seems to fall in that category). The next build has some improvements in this area anyways. You might be able to get away without a resync delay entirely in that build.

Core weirdness: After testing with connection to DAC, I removed the Core, but I did not DISABLE the ASIO driver. When I tried to startup Core (no DAC attached) the screen with the Roon Symbol pulsating away was shown but never clearing and displaying the main screen. Rebooted, shutdown optimizers, etc. etc but no go - same issue - Roon symbol just pulsating. Hooked up Core with no internet, and then Roon finally loaded up to main screen. I disabled the driver, hooked Roon back up to network, started Roon, and all was okay.

From your description, it makes it sound like one of the places where we call into your driver is hanging and locking us up, but your logs don’t seem to depict you getting stuck at a spinner. Each of the 9 log files in your support package contains an instance of successful ASIO playback. Any ideas as to what might have happened here?

[quote=“brian, post:25, topic:1620”]
From your description, it makes it sound like one of the places where we call into your driver is hanging and locking us up, but your logs don’t seem to depict you getting stuck at a spinner. Each of the 9 log files in your support package contains an instance of successful ASIO playback. Any ideas as to what might have happened here?[/quote]
I was running the Core hooked up to Endpoint testing issues with Remote hooked up to Endpoint. I had the ASIO driver enabled on the Core. I shutdown Core, disconnected Endpoint, started up Core, and saw the pulsating logo. Rebooted a couple times, same thing. Hooked up Endpoint to Core, Disabled ASIO Driver, shutdown, removed Endpoint, started up, and no issues. This is the only time I have seen this, but I have not tried to duplicate it.

So far Core hooked up to Endpoint playing DSD is doing well. Will be interested in next release getting Core and Remote back in the equation.