@dylan, Thank you for your feedback! No, unfortunately, there is no change. I do recieve the same March 2021 backup options for restoring…:
@dylan, it particularily reflects tagging. Each and every time I want to delete a track related tag…
…it is easy to untick the box
…but it takes almost one minute (45-55 sec) that Roon actually changes the on display, or, if I try to do other changes like editing something or skipping to the next track, this always also takes almost a minute to be possible (i.e. the editing section doesn’t show or the next track simply doesn’t play, it stucks). If I do not skip to the next track, however, the current song I would listen to, continues to play without a problem.
The only two changes I made after I’ve set up the new RoonServer were
a.) tagging each and every track in my library as described
b.) changed the DSP setting for my ProJect Streambox (beacause of the very first troubleshooting post, I’ve send to support in March 2021) - it is like this:
However, if I do change this setting back to normal, I still do have the issues described with tagging tracks - also, just the same after rebooting the Nucleus :-/ …
Hi @dylan,
In addition to what I’ve written in the mail before, I’ve found out, that the slowness happens ONLY after I am changing (tick or untick) the tag “nonvalued” (more or less all of the tracks in my library do have this particular tag).
Is does NOT happen by using tags for tracks: I’ve just found out by giving a defect track in my library the tag “defect”. And right after that the tag was displayed in Roon, also other editing stuff was possible immediatly, also skipping to the next music track was immediatly possible, as it should be. It seems to effect the “nonvaluated” tag, that’s tagged on 40k+ tracks, only…
Thanks, @Michael_Putz. Okay, here’s what I’m hoping we can do:
Can you reproduce the slowness issue when adjusting the tag, make a note of the time it happens, how long it takes, and the name of the track you’re tagging? After that use the directions found here and send over a set of logs to our File Uploader.
We’ll take a look at this issue and the backups and will follow up ASAP after we’ve investigated them both.
Thanks @dylan!
I’ve just send the log files (compr. in RAR).
My notes on this:
At 17:38 today, Oct 21, 2021, Berlin Germany time, I’ve unticked the tag “nonvaluated” for the track “Waltz for Debby [Take 2]” on the Bill Evans Trio album “Waltz for Debby [1962]”, a few seconds later I skipped this track to the next one (“Detour Ahead [Take 2]”) - this process stuck for about 40 sec.
Right after that I did the same procedure, now for track “Detour Ahead [Take 2]” (unticked the box for track tag “nonvaluated”, skipped to the next track, it stuck for about 50 sec. unitil next track was played).
Hope this helps!!
Hi @Michael_Putz, can you try this:
- Take the RoonBackups folder and move it to a new location (maybe a USB drive)
- Try restoring a backup from this new location
Let us know if there is any change when doing so!
Hi @dylan,
It’s just the same. I’ve copied the Backup folder on the USB drive. In settings → backup I’Ve chosen the backup folder on the USB, and the options are the same:
Hello @Michael_Putz ,
Can you please confirm that you moved only the RoonBackups folder to the USB drive and not the entire Backups folder? The QA team has noted that this issue may be occurring due to the nested Backup/RoonBackups folder, please confirm this when possible, thanks!
The main issue for me - now - is the completely annoying slow performance that I have descibed.
With tears in my eyes I’ve kind of accepted that the tagging I’ve done over almost six months obviously is blown in the wind… What a waste…
Now, crucial for my decision if I stay with Roon or quit will be a reliably smooth performance with 40k+ tags…
Hello @Michael_Putz ,
For the restore to be detected, the folder structure needs to be changed with the RoonBackups folder being the root folder, we believe the backup issue occurs due to the way it is currently structured.
We have done some further testing in the QA lab and we have been able to reproduce an issue when using a large number of tags (5-10k and over).
Using tags in such a high volume is a rare use case and further optimization would be needed and I am unable to comment on when/if such further optimization would occur.
Instead, would it be possible for you to try to add your tracks to playlists (or genre-based playlists) and see if that allows improvement? Thank you!
@noris
Found the Aug 2021 backup! Thanks! Started the restoring process FIVE HOURS AGO - STILL RUNNING… Is this normal?
Hi @noris - I’ve managed to restore the most recent backup (Aug 2021) which is absolutely fantastic! Thank you very much for you help!! As the screen did not came back to life after I’ve connected the uptade to the Nucleus, I’ve had to interrupt this process (after about six hours of running without any visible effect).
However, it seems to work now!
I’ll watch the further performance of Roon very closely for the next couple of weeks.
Best
;M
@noris,
Oh, wow - so Roon is kind of officially telling me that, say, 10k+ tags for tracks is not what Roon was designed for? That’s quite a bold statement and makes me wonder, if marketing slogans and actual reality do match…
I’ll consider if the playlist workaround you’ve mentioned will be of any help for me…
However, I’d like to understand: Does your statement refer to ANY 10k+ tags for tracks, or did the problem occur, if ONE AND THE SAME TAG for 10k+ tracks was tagged?
Thanks !
So would I. Users have got into performance issues in the past from excessive tagging, so what constitutes excessive is critical to know.
Just had a look at my library and I have:
- 17 unique tags defined
- 584 albums with those tags (many albums have multiple tags, I don’t tag individual tracks)
- Over 7000 tracks contained in those tagged albums (assuming avg 12 tracks per album)
Am I sailing close to the wind or nowhere near?
Hey @Michael_Putz,
Sorry we didn’t get a chance to get back to you until today, when we returned to work after the weekend.
I believe what Noris was trying to say is that having 5,000-10,000 tracks tagged with the same tag, might cause issues. Having 10,000 tracks in your library with a tag attached shouldn’t be an issue.
That’s actually pretty scary!
I assumed he meant 10k plus different tags.
Not just 10k tracks tagged with say " symphonic prog rock".
Now do we mean individual tracks tagged or when an album of say 12 tracks is tagged it then makes the 12 tracks inclusive of said tag?
Or is just one entry if you only tag the album and not each individual track within?
It seems to be easily achieved by users with large libraries who spend time curating whichever it is though.
Well the easy way around this is to split your 20,000 symphonic prog rock tracks into Symphonic prog 1 and symphonic prog 2 tags etc.
However, the figure stated by Noris was ‘5-10k and over’, so you may need four symphonic prog rock tags to be ‘safe’?