Fiio M11 upsample/downsample on Roon

[skbe]

@noris

Thanks for the additional report @tretneo, the first set of logs from @joaopmts are currently pending review by QA. I noted on the ticket that you are also seeing similar behavior on the M15, let’s see what QA says regarding the logs and once I have their report, I’ll update the thread accordingly.

Hi Noris. Same problem here.

[joaopmts (JOAO PAULO MARTINS RODRIGUES)]

Like I said, Tidal is a cheap app compared to Roon and do bitperfect. I don’t know why Roon cant solve this.

[skbe]

Hi there. How do you know Tidal is doing bitperfect on Android portable devices? Unlike Roon you don’t have complete transparency on the signal path with apps like Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify etc.

I mean you may see HiFi or Master when you play a song on Tidal but you don’t actually know how this signal is handled within Android on the “back office”.

If there is something I’m missing, I would be happy to know.

[joaopmts (JOAO PAULO MARTINS RODRIGUES)]

The Fiio M11/11Pro/15 have an option to show de current sample rate on the notification bar.

[skbe]

Hi Roon team
Please have you any input on this matter?
Each day is a lost day enjoying my FiiO with Roon…
Best

[skbe]

Hi Roon team
FiiO support gave me quick input on this. They said they are aware of the problem and that their engineers strongly think that the 2 DACs of the DAP handle the audio signal coming from Roon and that the problem is probably related to a display issue in Roon. They said they sent you a M15 in order to help you resolve this.
Can you please update your position? Will be a solution released for this? When?
Thank you very much

[john (John Iburg)]

Hello @skbe,

FiiO sent us a device, we are currently investigating the issue. We’ll be sure to update when we have more information.

-John

[Rithwik_Hari]

Hey folks, was this ever resolved? thinking of getting a FiiO DAP this holiday season but will hold off if Roon is going to downsample when I use it as an endpoint, which I am hearing is a consistent experience across android devices at the moment!

[joaopmts (JOAO PAULO MARTINS RODRIGUES)]

Not solved yet

[noris]

Hi @joaopmts,

Thank you for your patience as we have been looking into this issue further.

I spoke with the team today and we have been able to reproduce this behavior with the M11 we have in house and have identified what we believe is going on here.

When Roon starts playback to an Android zone, it uses the Android System Mixer to do so, at whatever it’s current rate is.

It appears that the Tidal app sets the System Mixer sample rate to 96kHz and it does not revert back when the app is closed.

Then when Roon tries to play back to the System Mixer zone, it receives the previously used sample rate.

Due to the way that Roon is architectured on Android, you unfortunately cannot switch the sample rate used, it will always get the last System Mixer values.

We’re working with Fiio to see if we can come to a solution, but we cannot promise anything at this point in time.

[joaopmts (JOAO PAULO MARTINS RODRIGUES)]

Thanks @noris, I see a progress there. Hope you and the team can solve this for community.

[Gordon_Pearce]

So, does this mean if I play something from Tidal (or any other app) in Red Book FLAC, then launch Roon, it will play Red Book FLAC files without resampling? I might buy an M11 if this is the case. My other Android devices always resample to 48KHz and are not bit-perfect…

[tretneo (Rob)]

Hi @noris,

Are there any updates on this topic?

Regards,
Rob

[noris]

Hi @Gordon_Pearce,

@Gordon_Pearce

does this mean if I play something from Tidal (or any other app) in Red Book FLAC, then launch Roon, it will play Red Book FLAC files without resampling?

Yes, but we cannot endorse this setup, we are not aware of what happens to the signal path when you use this type of workaround and there is no guarantee how long this behavior will remain, use this workaround at your own risk.

@tretneo

Are there any updates on this topic?

No updates that we can share at this time, we are still working with Fiio on this.

[tretneo (Rob)]

@noris, ty for the update!

[skbe]

I would be happy to know of this problem with Android devices is going to be resolved. Can we make sure one day that Roon is capable to deliver ‘lossless’ sound and not only ‘high quality’ sound to FiiO M15 and other Mxx?
Please @support give us an insight

[Danny_Scarbrough]

So for anyone reading this who may not be aware, these issues don’t exist on iOS. I have a FIIO M11 and had the same downsampling issues described here (also the buttons on my player won’t control Roon), I posted about it and was pointed to this thread.

I use an iPhone and figured I’d give it a shot with an Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt attached and sure enough the files play fine there with no downsampling or upsampling and as a result sound better.

I just wanted to drop this info in in case anyone was also not aware and found it helpful.

[joaopmts (JOAO PAULO MARTINS RODRIGUES)]

I really dont know why Roon does not solve this issue. Tidal app and Fiio Music play bitperfect, and I pay nothing more about it. I spent $500 and cant do what a free app can. I just doesnt use Roon anymore in my M11, Tidal for streaming and Fiio music for musics on my SD Card. It’s a shame.

[skbe]

In my case native apps don’t sound better in my M15. It sounds the same but with Roon I can use crossfeed and other eq settings. After all it is almost upsampling to 192k than downsampling. I believe that people use a lot more HiRes 24b 96/192k than DSD. But still, this anomaly of the signal path not showing correctly what it is going on the Fiio needs to be handled. Long time we wait !

[Danny_Scarbrough]

The parametric EQ is why I purchased Roon to begin with since FIIO didn’t bother including that in the native music app on the M11. I’m pretty disappointed with both FIIO and Roon over this.